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I may be mistaken here, but I always thought that a shotgun shell was loaded by volume and not by weight. Ounce is a hard term to use here because it can be both a volume or a weight measurement in our system. I always believed for example that a 2 ounce load on a shotgun shell was 2 ounces of volume and the weight would vary depending on the projectile material. For instance a #5 lead pellet is often compared to a #9 TSS in energy. Since they both leave the barrel at the same velocity, the only way to have the same energy is if they have the same weight. It is just physics. That is the only way to actually get more #9 TSS per ounce than #5 lead. If shells were measured strictly by mass then they would have the same numbers of pellets per ounce. The #9 TSS are obviously smaller in physical size but since they are more dense they actually weight the same per pellet as the #5 lead Am I correct in this thinking?
 
I may be mistaken here, but I always thought that a shotgun shell was loaded by volume and not by weight. Ounce is a hard term to use here because it can be both a volume or a weight measurement in our system. I always believed for example that a 2 ounce load on a shotgun shell was 2 ounces of volume and the weight would vary depending on the projectile material. For instance a #5 lead pellet is often compared to a #9 TSS in energy. Since they both leave the barrel at the same velocity, the only way to have the same energy is if they have the same weight. It is just physics. That is the only way to actually get more #9 TSS per ounce than #5 lead. If shells were measured strictly by mass then they would have the same numbers of pellets per ounce. The #9 TSS are obviously smaller in physical size but since they are more dense they actually weight the same per pellet as the #5 lead Am I correct in this thinking?


Shotshell ounces are weighed ounces. Maybe you're thinking volume because of how presses drop charges by volume? Although presses drop by volume, that volume equates to a particular weight.

I weight every one of my payloads by hand. 711 grains. 1 5/8oz....590 pellets. 362 pellets per ounce.

#5 lead has 170 pellets per ounce. Less than half of the TSS pellets per ounce.

A #5 lead pellet is around 1.99gr best I could find. Depending on make up. Copper or nickel plated or hardening alloys (all used in most turkey loads) reduce that weight.

I just weighed a #9 TSS. 1.16gr. (I have a pretty good scale)

My hulls actually get trimmed and are more like 2 3/4" 20ga shells at the end of the day. But they still pack 1 5/8oz of shot.

The weight isn't the only factor of the formula. The tiny size and hardness make a huge performance difference. Its like a flying laser beam. The fact that it doesnt fracture or deform and how dang small the shot is make it something else..

I had some zip through a LOT of turkey body. I'd post pics but they aren't pretty...last year I shot one quartering to me nearly in strut. He wouldn't lift his head and his wing butt was basically behind his noggin....I had pellets go through the breast and break the breast bone. The biggest wing bone was blown to pieces. It's no joke.



These links may help make sense of it and explain actual penetration tests.



The first link breaks down different shot and penetration.




That link explains why #9s are the way to go. In a nutshell, with a 300+ 10" circle. You'll still have over 100 in a 10" circle at 70yds and the penetration of the shot is still lethal.
 
Then the generally accepted statement of #9 TSS having the same energy as a #5 lead is not true. It may perform like #5 lead because of the small, uniform, super hard pellets but mathematically it can not have the same amount of energy since it is physically significantly lighter. If I didn't already have a lifetime supply of old federal HW and hevi-13 loads I would definitely be looking into TSS for the sub-gauge guns.
 
I may be mistaken here, but I always thought that a shotgun shell was loaded by volume and not by weight. Ounce is a hard term to use here because it can be both a volume or a weight measurement in our system. I always believed for example that a 2 ounce load on a shotgun shell was 2 ounces of volume and the weight would vary depending on the projectile material. For instance a #5 lead pellet is often compared to a #9 TSS in energy. Since they both leave the barrel at the same velocity, the only way to have the same energy is if they have the same weight. It is just physics. That is the only way to actually get more #9 TSS per ounce than #5 lead. If shells were measured strictly by mass then they would have the same numbers of pellets per ounce. The #9 TSS are obviously smaller in physical size but since they are more dense they actually weight the same per pellet as the #5 lead Am I correct in this thinking?
Yes, at times, but no.
An ounce is an ounce in weight no matter if it is Lead, Tungsten or marshmellows.
Lighter pellets would take up greater volume than heavier pellets to achieve the same payload *if pellets are the same size.
Different size pellets of different weights cause the volume amt to vary.

These numbers are based on the shot I have on hand.
A #9 TSS pellet is .08-.085" or 1.9-2.0mm in diameter. It weighs between 1.2 and 1.3gr depending upon the quality and density.
A # 5 Lead pellet is .120" or 3.05mm and weighs 2.6gr.

The #9 TSS is half the weight of a #5 Lead pellet. They are not the "same" in weight. They are not the same in density. That is why there 362 #9 TSS pellets in an ounce of shot and only 160+/- of number 5 Lead pellets.

The closest you will get in weight to a Lead #5 at 2.6gr without going over is with a TSS #7 at 2.3gr per pellet in weight..

Edited to add: That #7 TSS will perform like a Lead size #3/#4
 
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Discussion starter · #27 · (Edited)
Revised table I fixed the weight of each pellet. The pellet weights are now comparable to what Mauser06 has listed above.

ProductShot Sizepellets/ozpellet weight in ozpellet weight in grainsVelocityEnergy in ft-lbs of one pellet
TSS7.52200.00451.9912006.36
TSS93620.00281.2112003.86
Lead41350.00743.24120010.36
Lead51720.00582.5412008.13
Lead62250.00441.9412006.22

Also to clarify I have nothing against TSS. I just think it is interesting when people say the energy is the same from lead #5 to TSS #7. The pattern density that TSS provides as an advantage is where I believe it makes the biggest difference you have a lot more chances of hitting something good with more pellets in the area.
 
Well that table is a little more practical.
It is often repeated that the energy is the same and as you have shown that’s a false statement.
To sum it up, the lethality, pellet for pellet is said to be similar from tss 9s and lead 5s. Sometimes I’ve even heard lead 4s. How you define lethality in concise terms, I’m not sure.
 
Well that table is a little more practical.
It is often repeated that the energy is the same and as you have shown that’s a false statement.
To sum it up, the lethality, pellet for pellet is said to be similar from tss 9s and lead 5s. Sometimes I’ve even heard lead 4s. How you define lethality in concise terms, I’m not sure.
The standard used is the ability to penetrate at least 1.25" of 10% ballistic gel. Whatever distance that a pellet cannot penetrate that far is the distance that is considered beyond effective killing range for reliable kills.
Add in the distance where a load can keep at least 100 pellets in a 10" circle and those two are factors which set the baselines.
 
I can tell you one thing for sure, I've never missed a turkey using TSS, missed a boat load over the years, even back when I believed a 10 gauge was the "real deal". If his head/neck is inside the crosshairs, he's going for a ride in the truck.
 
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