You hear all about the gi-hugic Pa. black bear but the truth is that the vast majority of them still weigh in at under 200 lb....No cannon needed although some still swear that you need one.

An elk, even a cow, averages out at twice as much weight and warrants a little more gusto.

 

I see what you're sayin, but even a 200lb bear can be a pretty tough critter. My 2nd bear took 3 good shots from my 270 weatherby magnum before it expired. First shot went on an angle behind the left front shoulder and exited at the base of his neck.He fell over and started rolling around with his butt facing my way and he was on his back.I thought well he's still moving so I'm still shooting. 2nd shot entered about 4" above his tail and that bullet was lodgedin his right front shoulder.He started trying to get up,so I bolted the gun and fired again.Bullet got deflected by a small branch that somehow grew really fast and was in the way.LOL. uh-oh gun was empty.I grab 2 more shells out of my woolrich pocket and stick em in the gun and close the bolt. By this time the bear was up on 3 legs trying to get the fourth one to to work.I sent another bullet at him and hit him one inch behind where the first shot hit.Down he went! I started walking to him, and he let out his death growl and it was over. That bear had an estimated live weight of 138lbs. and the range was 26 long steps.So they can be tough little critters. I have since "retired" that rifle and bought a new bear thumper, a Marlin Guide gun in 45/70

 

My dad shot a 200 pound Blackie last year and he had to hit it several times with his .30-06 carbine before it was down for keeps. I shot my 115 pounder 5 times with a .32 Special before it quit. A bear that is hopped up from being pushed can be hard to put down with anything. They can take a lot of punishment. A good shot on a relaxed bear usually ends things pretty quick though. I've carried a .243 for bear in the past so I shouldn't talk but for all the years I've had a .270 around I never remember carrying one for bear. I've always felt better with at least .30 cal on bear. I'd rather take on an Elk with a sub .27 caliber than a Black bear. Although if all I had was a .243 it wouldn't stop me from hunting either one.

 

I've been following the thread about the .270 caliber elk minimum and got to thinkin' why don't Pa have a similar minimum for bear? I myself would not use anything smaller than a .270 (if for no other reason that I don't own anything smaller),but I probably wouldn't favor a minimum caliber restriction. Just kinda curious as to why we don't have one.

I don't belive a .270 min makes sense for PA bear. For that matter I don't think a .270 min makes much sense for elk either. I think the law is the way it is because bear legal arms and ammunition was written a long time ago, Elk season is new.

I've never killed an elk, but I've been lucky enough to tag 2 Pa black bears over the years both over 350lbs. Both with a .260. Neither traveled more than 50yards. Where I bear hunt (like I imagine many in Pa do) I can't see more than 50 yards most of the day let alone get off a shot at a black blur in the brush. I agree to min cal restrictions, I just don't know where to draw the line. 6.5mm in my book can carry a whole lot of killing power for game larger then deer. On the same hand if some bone head does'nt pay attention they could select the wrong ammo for 6.5mm or smaller ammo and go after elk and bear with varmint bullets.

 

I've been following the thread about the .270 caliber elk minimum and got to thinkin' why don't Pa have a similar minimum for bear? I myself would not use anything smaller than a .270 (if for no other reason that I don't own anything smaller),but I probably wouldn't favor a minimum caliber restriction. Just kinda curious as to why we don't have one.

Guess because you can kill any PA bear with a 30-30, a 35 Rem, a .243, a 6 MM Rem., a 250 Sav. or 257 'Bob, or a 7x57 Mauser, or a 300 Sav. or.........

Muab Dib

 

Guess because you can kill any PA bear with a 30-30, a 35 Rem, a .243, a 6 MM Rem., a 250 Sav. or 257 'Bob, or a 7x57 Mauser, or a 300 Sav. or.........

Muab Dib

As long as the bear presents you with a good, broadside shot....... yep. Guess you can.

 

how does it make sense to have a .270 caliber min. for bear and at the same time allow archery? If I remember correctly, that "record" bozo or whatever ended up being a pin cushion of sorts with bolts. Not saying anything is wrong with that either. I'd feel more comfortable shooting a black bear with a good bullet in a .243 than my compound bow.

 

Because an arrow kills by hemorrhage, and the weight of an arrow is far greater than a bullet, as is the surface diameter. You don't need as much power AT REASONABLE DISTANCES with a bow. That being said, shot placement is still critical as always. A US Marine Sniper would be able to kill a black bear with a 17 HMR with a shot through the eye, but a "got me mo gun than you" fool can wound one with a .50 BMG just as easily as he can with a .22. I'm not a big believer in caliber restrictions alone. A 264 win mag will hit harder than a 30-30, but a 30-30 or 32-20 loaded with BP will cut the mustard for the caliber restriction, the 264 will not. I myself would want at least a .270, because I would want to be equipped for any PA Black bear, not just the average <200 lb.

 

Because the regs for bear were written long before you needed the newest 338 ultra super mega-ton triple magnum to kill a 100 pound doe

 

Because the regs for bear were written long before you needed the newest 338 ultra super mega-ton triple magnum to kill a 100 pound doe

 

how does it make sense to have a .270 caliber min. for bear and at the same time allow archery? If I remember correctly, that "record" bozo or whatever ended up being a pin cushion of sorts with bolts. Not saying anything is wrong with that either. I'd feel more comfortable shooting a black bear with a good bullet in a .243 than my compound bow.

I agree.

 

Ken, weight IMO has little to do with shootin game... Bone structure is more inportant then weight, and will to live in an animal is also inportant too. A bear has his vitals in a compact spot. Shoulder blade of bear compared to a moose is alittle different? Look at this once. A fox will drop over instantly shot in shoulder with 22 mag. 40 gr. hp shoot a g-hog same gun and bullet and he will run into his hole alive. A Caribou will drop fast but a Pa. whitetail will fight it. A cow or bull buck or doe seem IMO go down about the same, a male or female animal seem about the same. Seem IMOminimum for bear should be to know the body, bone bullet placement then the lesser cart.s could work. IMO if you have it flount it. If you have a 7,300, 338 mag. use it mabe that 200lb.'der is tougher then you think. Today I watched my first of the season to see, guess what?? He was no 1,200 lb. der he was well into the 3's, a beauty and thinkin he'll take some lead, IMO....later

 

A game animal pumped full of adrenaline will not give of the ghost quickly, that's for sure...In this type of situation I'm not sure that even a magnum would ensure an instant kill, but still not worth lugging a boat anchor around all day over hill & dale, and not warranted either..For those who "think" they need a cannon...have at it!

 

Why bother. Seriously. Lets keep the pipsqeak 6.8 spc legal, but outlaw the 6.5 swede. Keep the 25/06 or 257 roberts from the hands of hunters but hey my little 7mm BR would be legal.

You can force every hunter to carry a 300 win mag and unless they practice (more than off the rest on a bench for 2 or 3 shots), range estimation, targets anatomy, how to handle buck fever, etc you are gonna have wounded animals, poor shots and lost animals

 

Both you and Ken, and myself seem to be on same page anyways. IMO use what you can shoot well. We can keep on the cartridge theme more then what dose what on game I guess. What we have come to I think is a .264 win. mag. .280, 270, 25.06 ok for our bear??? IMO if the case is big enough to hold enough powder to run the bullet to a speed that holds the k-powew then thats the key. .243,257 with the small bt. is where I get hung up'ed...later