I am amazed that with all the x spurts (in Algebra, x is the unknown quantity. In plumbing, a spurt is a drip under pressure)

who post here nobody has taken a stab at this one. What you are describing is about what my hunting is like in Somerset County. I have tried to estimate what our population is and the best I can come up with is about 20 deer per square mile. Don't know if I am an "average" hunter or not. And no, I don't think that is asking too much in most areas of the state where the habitat can support that many deer. Based upon the condition of the habitat where I hunt, our area could possibly support a few more than it has now. Anyone else care to chime in?

Some of the days this past fall I saw ten or more deer. Some days none. On average I would say I saw about three or four per day.

 

NOt algebra, but simple math.

If hunter walks 1 mile, and can see everything with 75 yds on either side of him, AND assuming all deer stay put in that 150 yd wide swath, the hunter will have only hunted about 55 acres in that one mile walk.

Fifty five acres, is less,than one TENTH of a square mile.

If a hunter sits in a treestand and can see in a 150 yd circle around him, he is looking at only 3.6 acres.

 

True facts, but now to his question. How many deer per square mile are necessary for our "average" hunter to see 1-3 a day? I think you bring up an interesting point. I based my sightings on days when I hunted mostly from stands. On days I did a walkabout I saw a lot more deer, but mostly tails. If one wants to see deer, he needs to either be sitting on a corridor where they always go through or move around a bit.

Don't know what it is like where either of you hunt, but there are very few places where I could walk a mile and see 75 yards on both sides even most of the way. Might have been able to do that ten years ago, but now now.

One method of seeing more deer is to do pushes. On the first Saturday of rifle season I did two pushes for the guys. On the first one I pushed out a patch of laurel about 200 yards wide and Dave saw ten does and one buck.
Later I pushed out a larger patch of laurel for my other buddy Larry and he saw five does. Seems to me that after the first week or so of shooting the does and bucks both like nasty cover. If I had tried to push out big timber the results might not have been as good. Of course all of the above is contingent upon finding that guy who likes to bust through thick and nasty laurel, right?

 

Great info Mutt, please send GPS numbers to your stand sites

Seriously though, that 20 dpsqm seems to be reasonable depending on the habitat.

 

17-22 deer/sq. mile which is higher than the number where I hunt in 4D. If you are patient and have the time to stay put, you will eventually see deer.(if you've scouted the area and know the deer are there)

 

I agree, there really are few places, that I hunt, that I could see 75 yds on both sides. I was using it to ilustrate to others that they really hunt a VERY small area when they go for a "walkabout".

IMO, 20DPSM will not get you 3-4 deer sightings per day. 20 dpsm is one deer per 32 acres. So, you'd have to hunt, or see, 120 acres to see that many deer, assuming all the deer in that area stood still fer ya, which they don't. Of course, I'm assuming you are the lone hunter in the area and the deer are not effected by anyone but you.

IMO, for a hunter to see 10 deer per day, in general, requires a deer herd that probably will far exceed 20 dpsm.

 

Does the 90/10 principal work here? (90% of the deer are in 10% of the habitat)

 

I will relate this. I was told by a very reliable source, that a group of hunters put on some drives in Potter County, state forest DMAP areas. They put on 6 drives. They put out 90 antlerless and 15 bucks.

A friend that has a camp adjacent to where one of these drives was done, swears there are "no deer" in the area.

My brother hunted my 420 acre lease all the first week of deer season. He saw not one deer, not one. I hunted Friday of the first week, when he was there, and saw 9. But not a single possible shot opportunity.

My other brother is hunting there this week, in snow, and almost no deer tracks to speak of. Darned things just don't always stay put!

 

IMO, for a hunter to see 10 deer per day, in general, requires a deer herd that probably will far exceed 20 dpsm.

Not if he counts the same deer twice. Like the guys that say they seen 30-40 deer in one day. How many of those deer went by them more than once--Just sayin

 

Does the 90/10 principal work here? (90% of the deer are in 10% of the habitat)

At this point in time, probably so.

In years past, deer were everywhere because no one place, more or less, was much better than another as far as food sources. They were also up all hours of the day just to get enough to eat.

Now, the few deer that might be in an area, will stay bedded in areas with ample food and cover. They will get up, feed a few yards and bed right back down. They have no reason to go great distances, and won't, if pressured.

 

Does the 90/10 principal work here? (90% of the deer are in 10% of the habitat)

It might even be 95/5, tidewater.

 

IMO, for a hunter to see 10 deer per day, in general, requires a deer herd that probably will far exceed 20 dpsm.

Not if he counts the same deer twice. Like the guys that say they seen 30-40 deer in one day. How many of those deer went by them more than once--Just sayin

I agree TBO2. I know the days that I have seen alot of deer I am sure that many were the same. I think that is part of the reason that people don't see as many is that there isn't the hunting pressure that there used to be. Deer used to get pushed hard. I can remember seeing deer that would come thru that would be sucking air hard from being run alot. You don't see that now.

IIRC in 2000 I hunted the first day of rifle in Greene County and never saw a deer. The only time I have ever hunted an entire day and never saw a deer. The population in the area was high too, and I was hunting in a proven spot. Funny thing is alot of people around me killed deer. The last Sat which was the first day of antlerless I hunted the same spot and killed 2 doe and a buck in less than an hour and seen a pile of deer. Some days you just aren't in the right spot.

 

IMO, 20DPSM will not get you 3-4 deer sightings per day. 20 dpsm is one deer per 32 acres. So, you'd have to hunt, or see, 120 acres to see that many deer, assuming all the deer in that area stood still fer ya, which they don't.

Of course this depends to a huge extent upon HOW the person in question hunts that square mile with 20 deer in it. I'll wager that if I scout that square mile I will find the places in it that are likely to hold deer and will also figure out where the places are that do not. I won't waste my time hunting on a stand where I don't expect to see deer, and if I expect to see deer I probably will more often than not. This is because I do my homework and spend a whole lot of time in my square mile.

Tidewater, you will have a pm with the gps locations of my best stands in a day or so. NOT!

 

Ain't that the truth--I've been on one ridge and not a shot---next hollow over sounded like a war. I could say I didn't see a deer and it would be the truth. It would sound as if there are no deer in the area, as long as I didn't mention all the shooting in the next hollow

 

Thanks Mutt I knew I could count on you

 

I agree.

Back in the 70's, I did have a string of 26 deer walk past me. Not a buck in the bunch.

When I am hunting, I do not count deer that I suspect MAY be the same deer. If I have 5 deer walk past me, and an hour later, 5 deer come from the same direction they walked to, I don't count the second group.

 

The other big factor that affects deer sightings is hunter density.

The 90/10 rule seems to apply to bedding areas.

 

The 90/10 rule seems to apply to bedding areas.

If there is enough food, they don't leave those bedding areas all that much.

 

I agree.

Back in the 70's, I did have a string of 26 deer walk past me. Not a buck in the bunch.

When I am hunting, I do not count deer that I suspect MAY be the same deer. If I have 5 deer walk past me, and an hour later, 5 deer come from the same direction they walked to, I don't count the second group.

How do you know the first five didn't pass the second five going in oppsite directions???

OK,I forgot, the last nerve thing---

 

Unless I am sure they are the same, then I count them again.

 

The 90/10 rule seems to apply to bedding areas.

If there is enough food, they don't leave those bedding areas all that much.

I don't agree, but I guess it depends on the surroundings and local food sources. Deer like variety in their diet and will seek out emerging foods, such as white oak acorns, apples, hawthorne, other mast etc.in addition to agricultural grasses, corn and soybeans.

 

How do you know the first five didn't pass the second five going in oppsite directions???

OK,I forgot, the last nerve thing---

Because I hunt in Potter County and there are only 5 deer in the county? LOL

Yes........ the last nerve, but hey, someone has to work on it.

 

Once the population hits about 20 dpsm,hunters claim there's no deer.

 

Once the population hits about 20 dpsm,hunters claim there's no deer.

Correct.

I often wonder what populations were in the 70's in the northern tier. My guess is 60-70 dpsm or so.

 

Tidewater, whats the season 0ver in jersey for ducks? Have not heard from you in months, and your back hear creating a mess. LOL!! Glad your back brother, your book is making its way through my camp. Nice read.