What really stands out is the pellets/oz number.

 

and, improved penetration with smaller shot, not to mention hardness and as mentioned pellets per ounce meaning most likely instead of 1 hit you get 3+ meaning additive realized energy

 

I think the reason many of us use TSS, is pretty much the same reason the lead disciples don't switch to steel

 

Energy number is kind of meaningless. A 2 oz load traveling at 1200 fps has the same energy whether it's lead, TSS, stones or feathers.

 

The individual pellet energy is more important than the payload energy.

 

The grains/pellet is not accurate if that stands for grains per pellet.
Is the energy ft/lbs representing per pellet?

 

The grains per pellet calculated out to the oz per pellet. 7000 gr/lb and 16 oz/lb.

 

Your grains per pellet are way off.
one ounce is 437.5 grains.
362 pellets per ounce would be 1.21 grains per pellet.
172 pellets per ounce would be 2.54 grains per pellet.
Edit - you oz/pellet is wrong as well.
Makes me question the rest of your numbers….

 

Your grains per pellet are way off.
one ounce is 437.5 grains.
362 pellets per ounce would be 1.21 grains per pellet.
172 pellets per ounce would be 2.54 grains per pellet.
Edit - you oz/pellet is wrong as well.
Makes me question the rest of your numbers….

FWIW a 1.21gr pellet at 1200 fps has 3.87ft-lbs energy.

 

Let’s see the chart that compares a 7.5 tss vs 7.5 lead

I cant believe this is even a debate

 

I'm sold, where can I find the the cheapest tungsten dove loads?

I find it an interesting debate. It's largely a referendum on certain purity aspects of turkey hunting namely getting birds in close because inside 30 yards it's a moot point. The cost argument to me is kinda silly at turkey volumes, but if you extend that to other birds, then? Turkeys are just big dumb birds. It has a few different ethical dilemmas built into that whole social side of it.

But facts are facts and it is the good shiz and can kill a lot of things at ranges lead simply cannot. Crossbows of the turkey woods if you will.

 

You'd be surprised....hard-core waterfowlers are shooting it...or TSS blended with steel or maybe bismuth or hevishot....just for the effectiveness. Heck of a lot easier to drop a duck when you have 5x the pellets in the air to to the job. The pellet count in some of the steel loads is pretty dang low. If you can wingshoot well, and that's your passion...I can see it being worthwhile for sure. I much rather send my dog on a retrieve than have him glare at me for sky busting. Lol.

 

If there's x number of pellets per ounce, you simple divide 1 by that number to find out how many ounces each one weighs.
Your numbers are completely out of whack.

 

...stop encouraging change and showing facts..it's hard enough to find and absolutely ridiculously priced to need more people competing for the stock....please stay with your WW LongBeards, there a great shell..as good as copper will ever be.

 

Everyone knows TSS is better. Is it worth close to $10 bucks a pop? Most of the time it probably isn't. You would kill them just as dead with lead. I actually see more advantage using TSS for ducks and geese than turkey but I'm too cheap for that. Steel shot really blows. I'm using TSS now for turkey because if I'm lucky I'll get 2 shots a season. I've done very well with the TSS but I use to do well with lead too.

 

That's exactly it..
It all comes down to an individual choice of "Is the juice worth the squeeze?"
I know for me it sure isn't.

 

I may be mistaken here, but I always thought that a shotgun shell was loaded by volume and not by weight. Ounce is a hard term to use here because it can be both a volume or a weight measurement in our system. I always believed for example that a 2 ounce load on a shotgun shell was 2 ounces of volume and the weight would vary depending on the projectile material. For instance a #5 lead pellet is often compared to a #9 TSS in energy. Since they both leave the barrel at the same velocity, the only way to have the same energy is if they have the same weight. It is just physics. That is the only way to actually get more #9 TSS per ounce than #5 lead. If shells were measured strictly by mass then they would have the same numbers of pellets per ounce. The #9 TSS are obviously smaller in physical size but since they are more dense they actually weight the same per pellet as the #5 lead Am I correct in this thinking?

 

Shotshell ounces are weighed ounces. Maybe you're thinking volume because of how presses drop charges by volume? Although presses drop by volume, that volume equates to a particular weight.

I weight every one of my payloads by hand. 711 grains. 1 5/8oz....590 pellets. 362 pellets per ounce.

#5 lead has 170 pellets per ounce. Less than half of the TSS pellets per ounce.

A #5 lead pellet is around 1.99gr best I could find. Depending on make up. Copper or nickel plated or hardening alloys (all used in most turkey loads) reduce that weight.

I just weighed a #9 TSS. 1.16gr. (I have a pretty good scale)

My hulls actually get trimmed and are more like 2 3/4" 20ga shells at the end of the day. But they still pack 1 5/8oz of shot.

The weight isn't the only factor of the formula. The tiny size and hardness make a huge performance difference. Its like a flying laser beam. The fact that it doesnt fracture or deform and how dang small the shot is make it something else..

I had some zip through a LOT of turkey body. I'd post pics but they aren't pretty...last year I shot one quartering to me nearly in strut. He wouldn't lift his head and his wing butt was basically behind his noggin....I had pellets go through the breast and break the breast bone. The biggest wing bone was blown to pieces. It's no joke.



These links may help make sense of it and explain actual penetration tests.

Tungsten Super Shot - What Makes Them Effective

What Makes TSS So Effective? The key to the superior performance of Super-18 shot is the density. At 18g/cc (about 60% denser than lead), the penetration energy is so high that it enables one to go down significantly in pellet size, to greatly increase the pellet count and pattern density, while...

www.super18tungstenshot.com

The first link breaks down different shot and penetration.

Tungsten Super Shot - Choosing Shot Size

What Shot Size To Use A question that always comes up with TSS, is what shot size to use. Given that the whole reason TSS is so much better is due to the high density of the pellet material - which enables one to go down in shot size in order to increase pellet count and pattern density, without...

www.super18tungstenshot.com

That link explains why #9s are the way to go. In a nutshell, with a 300+ 10" circle. You'll still have over 100 in a 10" circle at 70yds and the penetration of the shot is still lethal.

 

Then the generally accepted statement of #9 TSS having the same energy as a #5 lead is not true. It may perform like #5 lead because of the small, uniform, super hard pellets but mathematically it can not have the same amount of energy since it is physically significantly lighter. If I didn't already have a lifetime supply of old federal HW and hevi-13 loads I would definitely be looking into TSS for the sub-gauge guns.

 

Also, thanks for the clarification Mauser.

 

Revised table I fixed the weight of each pellet. The pellet weights are now comparable to what Mauser06 has listed above.

Product	Shot Size	pellets/oz	pellet weight in oz	pellet weight in grains	Velocity	Energy in ft-lbs of one pellet
TSS	7.5	220	0.0045	1.99	1200	6.36
TSS	9	362	0.0028	1.21	1200	3.86
Lead	4	135	0.0074	3.24	1200	10.36
Lead	5	172	0.0058	2.54	1200	8.13
Lead	6	225	0.0044	1.94	1200	6.22

Also to clarify I have nothing against TSS. I just think it is interesting when people say the energy is the same from lead #5 to TSS #7. The pattern density that TSS provides as an advantage is where I believe it makes the biggest difference you have a lot more chances of hitting something good with more pellets in the area.

 

Well that table is a little more practical.
It is often repeated that the energy is the same and as you have shown that’s a false statement.
To sum it up, the lethality, pellet for pellet is said to be similar from tss 9s and lead 5s. Sometimes I’ve even heard lead 4s. How you define lethality in concise terms, I’m not sure.

 

Well that table is a little more practical.
It is often repeated that the energy is the same and as you have shown that’s a false statement.
To sum it up, the lethality, pellet for pellet is said to be similar from tss 9s and lead 5s. Sometimes I’ve even heard lead 4s. How you define lethality in concise terms, I’m not sure.

The standard used is the ability to penetrate at least 1.25" of 10% ballistic gel. Whatever distance that a pellet cannot penetrate that far is the distance that is considered beyond effective killing range for reliable kills.
Add in the distance where a load can keep at least 100 pellets in a 10" circle and those two are factors which set the baselines.

 

I can tell you one thing for sure, I've never missed a turkey using TSS, missed a boat load over the years, even back when I believed a 10 gauge was the "real deal". If his head/neck is inside the crosshairs, he's going for a ride in the truck.

 

I don’t care what it costs.

 

I don’t care what it costs.

me neither. Younger boy just flattened his first this AM. Not even a flop after the shot.

 

Nice one. I can’t believe that field has grass that high.

 

More playing around😁

 

Yea, that is a little sparse.

 

Again with TSS

 

That will drill em from the Waddles to the Brain

 

I am a blackpowder guy, so JMO, TSS is a game changer for the .410. Other gauges for modern shotguns???? I will leave that to the experts.

 

The sub gauges .410, 28 and 20 all become effective, efficient turkey killers

 

I haven't formed an opinion on TSS yet, as this is my first year using it (and a shotgun for quite some time), but I don't know anyone using it to increase their killing distance. The appeal for everyone I know, myself included, is the ability to use a lesser gauge and carry a lighter gun. Thus far, I'm digging how it patterns out of my new little 20 gauge.

 

In all reality, that is exactly what TSS is doing for the .410, extending the effective killing range which it appears to be doing. With other bigger gauges and the ammo available for them I can’t speak of. But the .410 certainly seems to have gained a lot from the introduction of TSS loads and chokes.

 

Plus no pulling feathers/pellets from the meat.

Just finished cleaning my kids bird. I had his 20g set up with a factor modified choke with TSS 9’s. Bird was shot at about 30yards.

Lots of holes in the breast meat with this open pattern setup, but they are just pin holes with no blood or feathers where the little pellets passed clean through.

 

Plus no pulling feathers/pellets from the meat.

Watch your teeth. TSS doesn't always pass through and man it is easy to crack a tooth on it. It doesn't give like lead. Don't ask me how I know!

 

This will be my first year using TSS. Bought a 5 pack of Federal #9's 3". Should be a fun year.