x2

 

Agree 100%

 

I also agree, but really, who cares...if I shot a buck that is large enough to be considered for P & Y, I would be one happy camper, regardless if my name ended up in a book.....

 

I also agree, but really, who cares...if I shot a buck that is large enough to be considered for P & Y, I would be one happy camper, regardless if my name ended up in a book.....

x2

 

I have warmed up to the fact that crossbows are here to stay. It seems most hunter I see now a days in Pa. or Ohio use them and people do tend to use what ever is easiest, its just human nature. I do like the fact crossbows give more people the opportunity to hunt, but I applaud P&Y for there stance. I do not agree with crossbow killed game being included in state game records for archery, there should be a separate category.

 

I like everything until the last paragraph. I don't see crossbows being a threat for serious hunters. I have both a Hoyt and a wicked ridge. Both have their place but the vertical bow is much better for hunting in my opinion as it's more stable in more positions ( hard to stabilize a crossbow without a rest), much quieter, and easier to take into the field with a tree stand..
My biggest fear when they allowed cross bow a in Pa was a bunch of yahoos were going by one thinking they were just like a rifle and could hit something out to 50-75 yards no problem. Most normal people know better than that and yes I did run into some people just like those in the field the first couple of years. But that died off and it's really no different than it used be before they were allowed. Heck you still had this before and still nowadays have the same yahoos who shouldn't be in the woods with a vertical bow. Don't know how many I ran into over the years who don't site in their bow every year or wound multiple deer. At least if they use an Xbow it is inherently easier to site in and be more accurate than a vertical bow with lack of practice and maybe they won't be wounding as much game.
Another aspect of picking sides is that antis don't care if your using a knife or a machine gun they don't like hunting and want it banned. If us hunters want to stand divided over stupid rivalries against the antis not only might we get crossbows banned they might end up taking the entire archer season away.

 

I could careless what P&Y say. No way I'd ever pay them or B&C to put my name in their book.
Nor do I care that PETA will never show me nude in one of their fur ads.

 

"A serious threat to the future of bowhunting".

Yeah right.....

Tell that to my 8 year old daughter who has the opportunity to hunt because of crossbows being legal, or a disabled vet whom may have the same opportunity.

 

Agree 100%

Me too.

But, not only is the camel's nose under the tent......... the tent has been flipped over and blown away.

We're done here in PA. The arrow gun is here. And just like a government tax or entitlement, it's here to stay. Ain't NO WAY any of it will EVER be rescinded, no matter what P&Y or anyone else says.

 

"A serious threat to the future of bowhunting".

Yeah right.....

Tell that to my 8 year old daughter who has the opportunity to hunt because of crossbows being legal, or a disabled vet whom may have the same opportunity.

I agree as well. I don't really give a hoot what P&Y thinks, but it's obvious from some of the posters that there are a lot of naive folks who consider only themselves when they assess the wisdom of crossbow legalization.

 

Since the crossbow has been around for more than 2000 years, what's the problem? Hunt with what makes you happy. Who cares about a book, crossbows make hunting more doable for alot of folks who cannot live up to P&Y's standards. Again hunt with what makes you happy.

 

They fought the 65% let off rule for years and years too, and almost every archer was glad to see that rule gone.
I shot a P&Y 8pt with my bowtech this year, and I have no desire to put him into any kind of record book anyway.
I would be completely in favor of an archery competency/ability course for all hunters regardless of weapon choice. Make it a yearly Pass or Fail in order to get a permit.
There are lots of goofballs among us, and the crossbow has made this much worse. Let's weed them out.

 

They have been fighting their two faced battle for the past 3 to 4 years. They will not win this fight and what will happen is a new org will recognize crossbow kills. Honestly I could give a crap about them.

 

They fought the 65% let off rule for years and years too, and almost every archer was glad to see that rule gone.
I shot a P&Y 8pt with my bowtech this year, and I have no desire to put him into any kind of record book anyway.
I would be completely in favor of an archery competency/ability course for all hunters regardless of weapon choice. Make it a yearly Pass or Fail in order to get a permit.
There are lots of goofballs among us, and the crossbow has made this much worse. Let's weed them out.

More legislation is the answer? I won't even note the logistics of doing what you suggest....

Rube Goldberg machines aren't just mechanical and we shouldn't pursue creating one within the PA H&T Digest either. Figure out a way to encourage what you suggest without the pass/fail litmus test and I'm sold.

 

Round and round we go, over and over again. Blah blah blah. Can't we just be hunters? Please!

 

They fought the 65% let off rule for years and years too, and almost every archer was glad to see that rule gone.
I shot a P&Y 8pt with my bowtech this year, and I have no desire to put him into any kind of record book anyway.
I would be completely in favor of an archery competency/ability course for all hunters regardless of weapon choice. Make it a yearly Pass or Fail in order to get a permit.
There are lots of goofballs among us, and the crossbow has made this much worse. Let's weed them out.

More legislation is the answer? I won't even note the logistics of doing what you suggest....

Rube Goldberg machines aren't just mechanical and we shouldn't pursue creating one within the PA H&T Digest either. Figure out a way to encourage what you suggest without the pass/fail litmus test and I'm sold.

Worried about not making the cut, eh?

 

"A serious threat to the future of bowhunting".

Yeah right.....

Tell that to my 8 year old daughter who has the opportunity to hunt because of crossbows being legal, or a disabled vet whom may have the same opportunity.

I didn't/don't like the fact that they were made legal for everyone. Anyone disabled was allowed to use one and I never had a problem with that. As far as kids, I guess if they're too small to draw a 35lb bow and you really feel the need to take them, get a special permit. One of my biggest issues with the crossgun is the fact they can use magnification optics and vertical bows are not. Get rid of the scopes and it may ease some of the resentment.

I seriously doubt I will ever hunt with an x-bow and I know there is going to be a time in the not too distant future that I cant draw my bow. I guess I'll draw it till I cant then concede to my disability and simply go during gun season. Yes I despise them that much!

 

They fought the 65% let off rule for years and years too, and almost every archer was glad to see that rule gone.
I shot a P&Y 8pt with my bowtech this year, and I have no desire to put him into any kind of record book anyway.
I would be completely in favor of an archery competency/ability course for all hunters regardless of weapon choice. Make it a yearly Pass or Fail in order to get a permit.
There are lots of goofballs among us, and the crossbow has made this much worse. Let's weed them out.

More legislation is the answer? I won't even note the logistics of doing what you suggest....

Rube Goldberg machines aren't just mechanical and we shouldn't pursue creating one within the PA H&T Digest either. Figure out a way to encourage what you suggest without the pass/fail litmus test and I'm sold.

Worried about not making the cut, eh?

Hehe....worried about an intellectual discussion on the logistics of what you suggested?

 

"a serious threat to the future of bowhunting"....That is a very uninformed statement by pope and young. Many states are trying to get young kids into hunting and crossbows are a vaild means of getting kids into deer hunting before they can shoot a gun. I don't understand why so many people feel the need to bash crossbows and crossbow hunters. Afterall we are all on the same team guys. We all share a passion for a sport and for the outdoors. I personally have both a compound and a crossbow. I usually use my compound until the rut starts and then I take my crossbow because I feel it gives me a bit better chance in certain situations. This year I got my buck with my compound but I would have been just as happy and proud shooting it with my crossbow. Personally I try to shoot mature bucks but I never score them and I could care less what Pope and Young and Boone and Crockett say about deer and deer hunting. I hunt for the excitement, comraderie and relaxation that it brings. I certainly will not judge anyone who enjoys the same sport that I do as long as they are hunting within the defined laws. To those who insist on bashing crossbows I have a question for you. Do you hunt with a flintlock or a muzzleloader during the rifle season? You certainly are allowed to use a flintlock or muzzleloader during rifle season and using a rifle clearly has an advantage over a muzzleloader. To me the whole compound/crossbow debate has the exact same principle as muzzleloader vs. rifle. Why is there no negativity towards rifle hunters? Regardless lets just keep it positive and get along. Afterall we all share a passion for the same great sport.

 

I agree with P&Y but also agree they are here to stay. These clubs can set whatever standards they want for being included in their record books. Same goes for the rifle recordbook and muzzleloader book. Their records, their rules! I don't agree with some of them but they can set it up any way they please.

 

They fought the 65% let off rule for years and years too, and almost every archer was glad to see that rule gone.
I shot a P&Y 8pt with my bowtech this year, and I have no desire to put him into any kind of record book anyway.
I would be completely in favor of an archery competency/ability course for all hunters regardless of weapon choice. Make it a yearly Pass or Fail in order to get a permit.
There are lots of goofballs among us, and the crossbow has made this much worse. Let's weed them out.

More legislation is the answer? I won't even note the logistics of doing what you suggest....

Rube Goldberg machines aren't just mechanical and we shouldn't pursue creating one within the PA H&T Digest either. Figure out a way to encourage what you suggest without the pass/fail litmus test and I'm sold.

Worried about not making the cut, eh?

Hehe....worried about an intellectual discussion on the logistics of what you suggested?

The logistics of it are simple.
There are archery 3D courses set up all across the state all spring and summer long, heck you could even have a winter course set up after Jan 1st.
At the end of the course, have a 10 target station set up in hunting conditions and make it mandatory that you have to place your arrow/bolt inside the 8 ring on every target. Pass/Fail. Make it a $5 donation to shoot the course. $2 to the club, $3 to hunter education programs.
If you pass, you get a card that you present when purchasing your license. This card/number would be required to purchase an archery permit.
How much more difficult would you like to make it???

You need a competency permit for just about everything else that requires some degree of skill when the activity could put others at danger. Why are you opposed to this?

 

They fought the 65% let off rule for years and years too, and almost every archer was glad to see that rule gone.

With the high demand and popularity of high let-off compound bows, they had to concede in order to stay relevant.

If crossbows continue to increase in popularity they will likely change their stance again or cease to exist.

 

I agree with P&Y but also agree they are here to stay. These clubs can set whatever standards they want for being included in their record books. Same goes for the rifle recordbook and muzzleloader book. Their records, their rules! I don't agree with some of them but they can set it up any way they please.

Agree! Their club. Their record book. Attempting to dictate what a state can approve for a general archery season is very bad form for P&Y.

 

I have to admit, you do have a simple vision for the execution of this requirement. Some questions I have to pose before I sign off on this plan:

1. Who determines the standard for hunting conditions? Do we consider ground blinds, still hunting scenarios, elevated positions, or everything in the context of this course? Do the course standards vary depending on the hunter's age, disability, or general conditioning? Do we supervise each of the ten targets individually or is it all the same person?

2. How does the state ensure that enough courses are available all of the time and what mandates do they have to force clubs to provide this service? If they don't have a mandate, what funding is available for the state to provide this service on its own?

3. How do we ensure that clubs maintain the required standards and who presides over contentious attempts to pass? We've all seen the discussions generated during friendly archery shoots and with the privilege to hunt archery hanging in the balance the state will need to provide resources, legal, field, or otherwise, to maintain these standards.

4. Since we can safely assume there will be at least an initial, if not long term reduction in the number of archery licenses sold state wide due to course attempt failures, how do we make up the difference in revenue? The game commission will need to perform a cost/benefit analysis of the program to ensure revenue gaps are not created and this analysis will also need to be funded somehow.

This is an initial bucket list of questions that need to be worked out before this plan could be implemented. Can anyone else think of anything we may want to analyze before we put this plan in place? I’d hate to be surprised after the targets have already been deployed.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight, but when it comes down to it Boone and Crockett is the book that gets the most respect.