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Discussion Starter #1
Rural Wyoming, known for breathtaking vistas, now has worse smog than Los Angeles because of its boom in natural gas drilling.

Preliminary data show the region's ozone levels last Wednesday got as high as 124 parts per billion, which is two-thirds higher than the Environmental Protection Agency's maximum healthy limit of 75 parts per billion and above the worst day in Los Angeles all last year, 114 parts per billion, AP reports.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...-gas-drilling/1

The above story is from March of 2011. Posted because I believe it ties in with the following story from this December.


http://fuelfix.com/blog/2011/12/01/industry-fights-planned-pollution-rules-for-oil-gas-drilling/

Proposed regulations designed to curb pollution from oil and gas drilling will suppress domestic energy production and inflate costs, the industry’s largest trade group warned today.

In comments filed with the Environmental Protection Agency last night and in a conference call with reporters today, the American Petroleum Institute took aim at the proposed new limits on pollution emitted during drilling, production at wells and eventual transportation of the fossil fuels.

Howard Feldman, API’s director of regulatory and scientific affairs, called the EPA’s initial proposal “overly burdensome”
 

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another article that does not say where air quality samples were taken, how many days this happened. More of the same anti drilling articles that don't really speak the truth.

Oh, and the EPA is using POTENTIAL GAS PIPELINE leaks in their analysis of why gas production is worse that burning coal for air pollution.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
1trueamerican said:
another article that does not say where air quality samples were taken, how many days this happened. More of the same anti drilling articles that don't really speak the truth.

Oh, and the EPA is using POTENTIAL GAS PIPELINE leaks in their analysis of why gas production is worse that burning coal for air pollution.
Here is the 250 page 2011 Upper Green River Ozone Study released by Wyoming's DEQ in October. Interestingly enough it backs up EVERY single factoid in the original article.

http://deq.state.wy.us/aqd/downloads/Air..._Appendices.pdf


As to potential gas leakages from pipelines, you are correct. Although the projections also include gas leaks from wells - whether faulty or intentional flaring and venting. I fail to see what your point is however as that is an acceptable protocol in the scientific field. Projections based on extrapolated data from past performance is an issue how? As you have claimed to be a scientist, I would have thought you would have known this.
 

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Wyoming’s ozone problem is fairly unique. While air emissions can cause ground-level ozone to soar in urban areas during the summer, ozone in the Upper Green River Basin peaks each year between January and March.

A combination of bright sunshine, snow on the ground and temperature inversions creates ideal conditions for atmospheric chemical reactions that create ozone. Certain air emissions from the Pinedale Anticline and Jonah gas fields fuel those reactions.




Read more: http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/...l#ixzz1hrAXgPkN

I believe the study reflects that many conditions come into play for the higher readings.... snow cover, radiation, wind direction, time of day all have an effect...hence the spikes in readings.

Not suggesting that drilling does not emit air pollution , but the Wyoming numbers are not necessarily reflective of findings thoughout the country.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
timberdoodle said:
Wyoming’s ozone problem is fairly unique. While air emissions can cause ground-level ozone to soar in urban areas during the summer, ozone in the Upper Green River Basin peaks each year between January and March.

A combination of bright sunshine, snow on the ground and temperature inversions creates ideal conditions for atmospheric chemical reactions that create ozone. Certain air emissions from the Pinedale Anticline and Jonah gas fields fuel those reactions.




Read more: http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/...l#ixzz1hrAXgPkN

I believe the study reflects that many conditions come into play for the higher readings.... snow cover, radiation, wind direction, time of day all have an effect...
The conditions allow for atmospheric chemical reactions fueled by? According to your link air emissions from the Pinedale Anticline gas field and the Jonah gas field.

I don't believe anyone claimed it is representative to the rest of the country, just that Wyoming's spikes in ozone were higher than L.A.'s. in the past year.
 

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Your title of this thread is then certainly misleading wouldn't you agree... The fact that a spike is noted does not mean that Wyoming has more smog than LA... It only means that on March 12th at 12:00 Noon it had a higher reading
 

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timberdoodle said:
Your title of this thread is then certainly misleading wouldn't you agree... The fact that a spike is noted does not mean that Wyoming has more smog than LA... It only means that on March 12th at 12:00 Noon it had a higher reading
lol
 

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Discussion Starter #8
timberdoodle said:
Your title of this thread is then certainly misleading wouldn't you agree... The fact that a spike is noted does not mean that Wyoming has more smog than LA... It only means that on March 12th at 12:00 Noon it had a higher reading
No I would not agree. Do you see the curvy line with the dot at the bottom of it at the end of the title of this thread. That is called a question mark. A question mark implies a question not a statement. Would it be better if I had just used the headline of the story which reads: Wyoming's smog exceeds Los Angeles' due to gas drilling
 

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Wyoming <u>now</u> has more smog than LA?

OK I'll give the question in your favor. the answer is of course... NO. It does not.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
timberdoodle said:
the answer is of course... NO. It does not.
The statistics listed in the DEQ report state at times (no not one hour as the tests are an average of an 8 hour sampling) this part of Wyoming had periods of higher ozone readings than LA did in 2011 year to date.

Of course, if you have contradicting data, I'd love to read it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Your links do not show ozone testing results.
My link shows a part of Wyoming had higher ozone levels than LA did in all of 2011.

Your links just show both areas were assigned an F for air quality. Your link does show LA had more days of bad air but not a higher reading.

I think we are starting to split hairs.
Yes LA has more days of bad air but this part of Wyoming had higher readings for ozone than LA did in all of 2011.

So in order to answer the question as to which has more, depends are you going by the highest ozone reading or cumulative days?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
http://www.epa.gov/glo/

Ozone (O3) is a gas composed of three oxygen atoms. It is not usually emitted directly into the air, but at ground-level is created by a chemical reaction between oxides of nitrogen (NOx) and volatile organic compounds (VOC) in the presence of sunlight. Ozone has the same chemical structure whether it occurs miles above the earth or at ground-level and can be "good" or "bad," depending on its location in the atmosphere.

In the earth's lower atmosphere, ground-level ozone is considered "bad." Motor vehicle exhaust and industrial emissions, gasoline vapors, and chemical solvents as well as natural sources emit NOx and VOC that help form ozone. Ground-level ozone is the primary constituent of smog.


I do have to admit your link made me chuckle. A website for ozone generators? really? what's next QVC?
 

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g17 said:
http://www.epa.gov/glo/

Ozone (O3) is a gas composed of three oxygen atoms. It is not usually emitted directly into the air, but at ground-level is created by a chemical reaction between oxides of nitrogen (NOx) and volatile organic compounds (VOC) in the presence of sunlight. Ozone has the same chemical structure whether it occurs miles above the earth or at ground-level and can be "good" or "bad," depending on its location in the atmosphere.

In the earth's lower atmosphere, ground-level ozone is considered "bad." Motor vehicle exhaust and industrial emissions, gasoline vapors, and chemical solvents as well as natural sources emit NOx and VOC that help form ozone. Ground-level ozone is the primary constituent of smog.


I do have to admit your link made me chuckle. A website for ozone generators? really? what's next QVC?
Once again, what does ozone in Wyoming have to do with drilling in PA? Since fracing does not cause any real issues, air quality is the newest boogy man used to try to stop drilling. Compressors are the only long term structure that MIGHT come under epa air regulations and they are run on natural gas, one of the cleanest burning fuels. All of the other issues, drilling, fracing, truck traffic, possible wells or pipeline leaks are a red herring being used to try to insert the epa into this industry in order to stop all drilling.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
1trueamerican said:
g17 said:
http://www.epa.gov/glo/

Ozone (O3) is a gas composed of three oxygen atoms. It is not usually emitted directly into the air, but at ground-level is created by a chemical reaction between oxides of nitrogen (NOx) and volatile organic compounds (VOC) in the presence of sunlight. Ozone has the same chemical structure whether it occurs miles above the earth or at ground-level and can be "good" or "bad," depending on its location in the atmosphere.

In the earth's lower atmosphere, ground-level ozone is considered "bad." Motor vehicle exhaust and industrial emissions, gasoline vapors, and chemical solvents as well as natural sources emit NOx and VOC that help form ozone. Ground-level ozone is the primary constituent of smog.


I do have to admit your link made me chuckle. A website for ozone generators? really? what's next QVC?
Once again, what does ozone in Wyoming have to do with drilling in PA? .
Once again, you've been proven wrong on your previous statements in this topic. Remember the news article from wyoming that was and I quote "More of the same anti drilling articles that don't really speak the truth." Did you enjoy the 250 page report showing all the data? it would seem your denial did not work.

As to what it has to do with PA. Well let's see, how about if it's an issue that happens elsewhere, why not learn from it instead of denying it. I'm not saying stop drilling but I am saying do it in the safest manner with the least enviromental impact as possible. Let's get the pollution control devices on the rigs now instead of later if a problem with air quality arises. As you have stated time and again, the industry is all about doing it right..Well if that's the case then step up to the plate and do it right! Let's be a little proactive instead of reactive.
 

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odd the Nasa link used Los Angeles. never mentioned Wyoming


Also same link has solar enery in the statosphere breaking up O2 molecules and the formation of O3 the good kind. How come the same solar energy doesnt break up O2 in the Troposphere and form O3? Seems like O2 is a major cause of O3
 

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Discussion Starter #20
timberdoodle said:
odd the Nasa link used Los Angeles. never mentioned Wyoming


Also same link has solar enery in the statosphere breaking up O2 molecules and the formation of O3 the good kind. How come the same solar energy doesnt break up O2 in the Troposphere and form O3? Seems like O2 is a major cause of O3
The fact Wyoming wasn't mentioned may have to do with the nasa link being dated 6/4/04 - 7 years before the story on Wyoming hit the press? just a guess...

As to your 2nd question.. my best guess would be the ozone in the stratosphere acts as a solar radiation shield prohibiting the same reaction in the troposphere.
 
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