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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was watching Macmillan river adventure tonight on outdoor channel. It was about the Gray wolves that have made a big come back since they were put on the endanger species act that was signed in 1973. The wolves have been detrimental to the elk and the ecosystem. Big game forever group would like to have the states control the wildlife instead of the federal Government that is being fuel by the anti's, go to http://biggameforever.org/and sign the petition and watch the video on this website.it cost nothing to do, but you can become a member if you want.. thanks.. MRA is on tueday night at 11 pm. that is if you want to watch the show.
 

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Elk were not detrimental to the ecosystem? High populations of elk changed the ecosystem. There are published studies on that.

Both elk and wolves need managed through hunting allocations. Haven't figured out how wolves have become detrimental to an ecosystem yet though.
 

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Gotta love the treehuggers.They also brought us ethonal which raised the price of groceries and lower our fuel mileage.Now they bring us Al Gore light bulbs.

They much rather have wolves control the animal populations then hunting as a tool.Problem is they don't want hunting to control the wolves.They love the ideas of predators but disnmiss the idea of man in the equation.
 

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Todd, the wolves have not harmed the eco system, but, anti-hunters see them as taking the place of hunters, and they have.

Everything needs balance, unless we want to completely exclude hunters.

One thing I have said for many years is that places like Yellowstone are not natural ecosystems, in the least. The reason? Because those systems have ELIMINATED hunting by man. Before it was a park, Yellowstone was hunted by native Americans, and they influenced not only game populations, but predator populations.
 

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The antis wanted to introduce wolfs into Valley Forge National Park to control the deer.... Never mind the effect the wolfs would have on the Boy and Girl Scouts hiking there or the ederly couple out for a sunday stroll. Oh, and they (treehuggers) apparently had not considered that the wolf population would not understand that they were not permitted to leave the park to hunt. Gheeese!
 

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The wolf situation is like anything else the government gets involved with, a true snafu. We can only hope that a court agrees with conservationists instead of the treehuggers.
 

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rflktrman.
Any true conservationist would understand the value of wolves to the ecosystems, and the value of having a healthy wolf population period.

It is unfortunate that some are trying to make conservation into something it is not: a smokescreen for what is in reality an anti-conservation message or policy.

As for the wolves: Yellowstone is the most studied setting. A new study of the ecosystem was just released within the past couple of weeks. It can be found on the NPS Web site, or at least it was there a few days ago. The bottom line is that wolves significantly changed the ecosystem, and for the better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I am wondering if anyone here really knows what is a ecosystem? How can you not call Yellowstone park not being an ecosystem? How can the wolves help the ecosystem when there are no hunting wolves? How can elk not be detrimental to the ecosystem, but high elk population changed the ecosystem.. definition of a ecosystem...http://forest.mtu.edu/kidscorner/ecosystems/definition.html
 

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mossycamo said:
How can you not call Yellowstone park not being an ecosystem?
Just verifying what you are asking. Your question is "How can you call Y-stone an ecosystem?" With the double negatives this is what I am reading.

Anything is an ecosystem. It's one of those words that gets thrown around pretty loosely. New York City is an ecosystem. Now, there are healthy ecosystems and not so healthy ecosystems. It all depends on what the goals for that land are.

Is Yellowstone an ecosystem, sure. Just as is the state forest in WMU 2G, 5A and the rest of our backyards.
 

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mossycamo said:
How can the wolves help the ecosystem when there are no hunting wolves?
How can hawks & owls help the eco-system when there is no hunting them ??

Just sayin'.
 

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Dutch said:
Todd, the wolves have not harmed the eco system, but, anti-hunters see them as taking the place of hunters, and they have.

Everything needs balance, unless we want to completely exclude hunters.

One thing I have said for many years is that places like Yellowstone are not natural ecosystems, in the least. The reason? Because those systems have ELIMINATED hunting by man. Before it was a park, Yellowstone was hunted by native Americans, and they influenced not only game populations, but predator populations.
geesh,that's two posts in a row you get a
 

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Wolves, Elk and Bison affect the ecosytem just like Sheep and Cattle do, one way or the other. It all depends what the parts of that ecosystem can benefit or be a detriment to the man doing the defining.

I am all for the re-introduction of the American Indian into the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. Probably would cut down on the number of visitor days though.
 

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Yes, I imagine there might be better places to spend the winter. The wolves probably called Yellowstone home long before the Indian.
 

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BILLINGS, Mont. — An acclaimed elk herd in Yellowstone National Park took a major hit last year, with biologists saying almost one in four of the animals were lost, mainly to predators and hunters.

Park biologist Smith said the long-term decline was indisputable, with 70 percent of the herd gone since wolves were reintroduced to the park from Canada in 1995.

Harvest limits for reproducing female elk were down to just a few dozen north of the park this year, versus almost 3,000 a season at their peak.

Yet in the 1990s, several thousand elk were killed in some years. Hoppe believes the herd's best days are gone, and a local hunting industry that already was ailing will collapse.
 

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Same "Smith"

<a href="http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/yellowstone_national_park/article_4bbbf114-2554-11e1-b1ba-001871e3ce6c.html" target="_blank">Since elk have co-existed with wolves, their population has decreased, Smith said. And yes, wolves have played a role in that — but they are only one factor.

“Everybody thinks that everything that happened after wolves (were reintroduced) happened because of them,” Smith said.

In reality, a combination of wolves, human management and climate changes, such as a 10-year drought and last year’s harsh winter, have led to today’s reduced number of elk. Also, Yellowstone is now home to more predators than there have been in 100 years — including species like cougars and bears.

Fewer elk doesn’t have to be a bad thing, Smith said. The environment is now more balanced. Woody vegetation is growing better, which has resulted in more beavers and songbirds.</a>
 

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I agree that those herds need controlled. I believe that man, did SOME controlling of the Yellowstone Elk herd because when the migrated out of the park, hunters killed a few.

Now, the extremists want them ONLY controlled by predators, which is not 100% natural or historical. Those herds in Yellowstone were, before 1876, controlled by BOTH man and predators, with man also helping to control the predators.

To EXCLUDE man from an ecosystem and to allow uncontrolled predator populations to exist, is NOT natural.
 

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Fewer elk doesn’t have to be a bad thing, Smith said. The environment is now more balanced. Woody vegetation is growing better, which has resulted in more beavers and songbirds.
No, it's NOT a bad thing. What IS bad is this thought process that wants to exclude man from any ecosystem where he previously had influence. That is not natural in any sense.

Ok, lets release cougars and wolves in PA in order to control the deer population. Eliminate all seasons on yotes, bobcats and bears as well, just so we can have a "natural" ecosystem.
 

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Wolves endangering big game, I think it's possible.
 
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