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As you look at the PGC map for the areas that did not have concurrent antler/antlerless gun seasons the first 5 days, 3A was surrounded.

Based on what you've seen in 3A- do you guys that have hunted up here think we need to go to non-concurrent days as well?

Personally--I think we need to go to it for a few years. My sightings of antlerless were way down this year, in both archery and gun seasons.
 

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Honestly I don't think it'll make much difference. Many hunters take their does in archery and early muzzle loader season. And if you have a DMAP tag you can hunt does the whole two weeks anyways in these zones.
 

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Deer numbers are fair to good in the areas of 3A that I've hunted in for the past 50+ years (NW Tioga/NE Potter).

Don't see any pressing reason to mess it up, by dropping first week concurrency. Biggest issue I see affecting deer sightings, is the major decrease in hunting pressure during firearms seasons. Most now sit and wait, very few hunters actually moving deer, let alone many drives taking place.

Otherwise, I wouldn't still be seeing lots of deer out feeding evenings in late summer/early fall, as opposed to the fewer numbers seen during firearms seasons.

The deer are there. Hardly anyone is causing them to move much these days, come the seasons.
 

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I would like to see certain large game lands in 3A managed differently. I'd like to see that statewide, but thats just me. In the case of public lands in units with high tag allocations, I think it is time for the PGC to begin to think outside the box. I have seen no such movement towards a system like they have in the south, so, I'm goiing to assume that Elmerton is ok with their status quo. Like always.

You can't tell Big Green anything.
 

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In my opinion it should change to mirror what is happening in surrounding WMUs. During the first 3 days of buck season all I saw were bucks, 4 in total, one legal.
During the last 3 days I saw 5 doe and 1 legal buck. 6 all day hunts and I see the same number of bucks as doe? In 25 years of hunting 3A, I don't remember the numbers being this equal.
I know this is a small sample size, but this seems to be the way the numbers have been heading the past few years.
 

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And I was bear hunting the first day of buck season in 3A on state forest land and saw 17 doe and no buck. How's that buck to doe ratio?
 

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I agree with the 1 : 1 ratio but it seems the habitat can handle more deer.
10 total deer in 6 full days of hunting?
I know we won't / shouldn't see numbers like 80's and 90's but it seems as though there should be more deer.
 

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Here are my daily deer sightings for the entire rifle season in 3A:

Opening day: 6 doe near my stand early, several doe later in the day, at a distance. It got dark very early (and foggy), or may have spotted a few more? Quite a few shots early and early afternoon.

Day 2: 3 doe within 60 yards early; Started to rain around noon, poured. Sun came out around 4 PM, but I was working on cabin, never went back out. Fair number of shots early.

Day 3: Very cold and snow squalls on/off much of the day. 3 doe within 40 yards early, one across from cabin later in the day.

Day 4: 28 degrees at dawn. 3 small baldies down by my hayfield late, shot one around 4:30.

Day 5: Low 20s this morning. Skinned my deer. Two doe out feeding across the hollow this morning. No hunters out, drove to a few nearby areas, saw over a dozen doe today.

Day 6: 18 degrees at dawn. Couple does across hollow in creek bottom. Went to Twp. meeting at 9 AM, drove around a bit, saw a dozen or more doe out feeding.

Second Monday: Neighbor killed 18.5" eight point, down the road from camp this morning. I saw 4 does today.

Tuesday, ran some errands, visited kinfolks. Rainy most of the day. Saw 2 does within a half mile of camp.

Wed: Rainy. Two baldies in field across hollow from camp; one bedded on a pasture bank; another one over by cousin's house. Went over near NY line around 4:30. 15 does out feeding, spotted one large buck, had no shot.

Thurs: Lots of shooting down the road, late morning. Local geezer had hit a big doe, I figured out where it had gone and finished it off for him (I still had a 3A tag). Back over near NY line around 4 PM again, 7 does and one forkhorn out feeding.

Friday: Worked on cabin most of the day. Saw the same forky this evening.

Sat: One horned forky off the neighbors and across from cabin early. 3 does up in back of cabin. Back over by NY late in the day, 5 does out feeding at 4 PM.
 

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Denny, with you observations, intellect, and experience, would you say deer in 3A face impending extinction?
 

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..would you say deer in 3A face impending extinction?
Not where I hunt 'em (and have hunted since 1960).

Fair to good deer numbers observed late summer/early fall. Drove around most evenings at dusk, when at camp this year. No shortage of deer out in most areas and some very nice bucks seen.

Funny part is, saw far more deer out then, than when I spotlighted the 3 nights before the rifle seasaon opener. If I had to base my observations only on the deer seen then, would've been "worried" some.

 

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Dutch said:
I would like to see certain large game lands in 3A managed differently. I'd like to see that statewide, but thats just me. In the case of public lands in units with high tag allocations, I think it is time for the PGC to begin to think outside the box. I have seen no such movement towards a system like they have in the south, so, I'm goiing to assume that Elmerton is ok with their status quo. Like always.

You can't tell Big Green anything.
 

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TusseyMtMan said:
Denny, with you observations, intellect, and experience, would you say deer in 3A face impending extinction?
No, the deer in 3A are not facing extinction. But what Denny sees on his families private lands, where hunter numbers are more controled, may or may not be what another person sees in a different area. No single opinion dictates.

This year, on the SGL that seems to be the focus, I witnessed more gang hunting. Like the old days where large areas of ridges/points ect were drove. I believe that to be a sign of fewer deer.. tactics reverting. Hunters bearing down.

The deer hunting experience on that SGL is no different than what one would experience fall turkey hunting in a day/week/season. With turkeys, you know that putting your shoes on.
 

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i will say in 2d where non concurrent has been going on for a few years the deer numbers seem to be going up. in 2d i hunt private land exclusively so my opinion may not be what others see. in 2d this year they upped the tag allocations and i purchased 3 with the intentions of passing one on to a mentored youth and filling one in rifle and then trying to fill one in flinter. in my area it would not hurt one bit to take 3 does from the heard by one hunter. i like the fact that for the first week its buck only.
 

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I would like to see a new phase of forestry tactics...a proactive phase more than a just a simple wait and see. The herd is down. When is there a better time?
 

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But what Denny sees on his families private lands, where hunter numbers are more controled, may or may not be what another person sees in a different area. No single opinion dictates.
Never said my observations "dictated" anything. Far too many variables, as in any geographic area.

My "family lands" now amount to my little 28 acre parcel. Although I've known most of my local neighbors for many years, none are now related. I can even hunt on some of the land now owned by absentee owners. Yep, it's all private and posted, for the most part. But large amounts aren't posted, never were.

Main point was, some complain about few deer in the area, when in truth, there are deer there. Otherwise, I wouldn't see lots of deer out feeding in late summer/early fall. Never have based my observations only on deer seen once the season opens.

Just not enough hunters left now, that still move deer come the season. People got old; some died; youngsters that once helped drive deer, graduated and moved away. The majority of the hunters there now, sit and wait. I know the local population of kids has dropped, because the Northern Tioga School District just went from three high schools, to two, due to declining enrolment. Used to be a dozen or more local teens hunting where I hunt. This year, maybe two or three? Less hunting pressure means fewer deer moved/seen.

Most of the non-locals are gone by the first Wednesday, although there are now a few camps with guys spending more time there, that previously were gone in the first week. More vacation or retired, don't know?

A bud's son hunts the SGL on Rt. 349 (Long Run), has for several years. He killed a doe on opening day, saw more deer this year, than during the past few years. According to him, hardly any pressure down there much past Tuesday. He stopped at camp for a visit on the first Wed. night, said they had hardly seen any other hunters on the SGL that day.
 

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I have hunted lease property for the last 3 years in 3a and it is well worth the $ to not have a sea of orange. We sit the first day and see deer. Due to lack of hunters, we drive, drive and more drives. I have seen the biggest buck in my life in Potter but they are crafty and sit tight, so they have to be pushed out of there daytime bedding grounds to be seen. The trail cams in these areas dont lie about the # of bucks, but they wont be seen normally until there is a hot doe in the area. Gotta love Gods country.
 
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