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I do not reload, a good friend of mine does. he loaded some super accurate 7mm-08 rounds for my son last year. i bought a bunch of brass off fellow members here. all of the rounds last year were remington brass. this year we shot winchester and remington brass. the winchester nickle plated brass are super accurate. the remington brass will not hold much of a group even at 100 yards. everything is the same except for the brass.

my question is: will the different brass cause this to happen ? he is out of town and i cant ask him.
 

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I do not reload, a good friend of mine does. he loaded some super accurate 7mm-08 rounds for my son last year. i bought a bunch of brass off fellow members here. all of the rounds last year were remington brass. this year we shot winchester and remington brass. the winchester nickle plated brass are super accurate. the remington brass will not hold much of a group even at 100 yards. everything is the same except for the brass.

my question is: will the different brass cause this to happen ? he is out of town and i cant ask him.
The short answer is yes. Changing any component runs the risk of impacting accuracy or having any number of issues. As an example, I was using the same brand and powder for loads in my 300 win mag but the cans of powder were purchased a year apart and were from different lots. Well when I ran on of one can of powder and moved to the new can. There was enough difference that my load that did not have pressure problems was now pushing primers out of the cases. This was the same powder just a different lot. I needed to start over and work up a load for the new can of powder.

In you case changing the brand of brass will post likely require you to start over and work up a new load for that gun.
 

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Yes, it very well could.

Different brands, even different lots of the same brand, may vary for specific internal capacity and consistency from brass to brass. I'm not shocked the Rem brass is not the best for you. I've found the weight of their brass to vary more than most, which means the thickness varies and the internal capacity varies. Doesn't mean you can't get it to work, but it does mean it's different than other brands.

When going from one brand of brass to another, you very well could need to redevelop your load. That's not at all unexpected.
 

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The short answer is yes. Changing any component runs the risk of impacting accuracy or having any number of issues. As an example, I was using the same brand and powder for loads in my 300 win mag but the cans of powder were purchased a year apart and were from different lots. Well when I ran on of one can of powder and moved to the new can. There was enough difference that my load that did not have pressure problems was now pushing primers out of the cases. This was the same powder just a different lot. I needed to start over and work up a load for the new can of powder.

In you case changing the brand of brass will post likely require you to start over and work up a new load for that gun.
This is why I went to flat spot load development (see my post on it). I had the same thing happen. Had a load go faster by over 100fps by simply changing cans of the same powder from one can to another.

The flat spot method has given me a way to establish a speed where I get the accuracy I want, and when I change powder lots, I just need to find where the speed is what it should be, and then I'm good to go.

This winter I am planning to start buying into 8lb jugs of the powders I will be using and working out of them to avoid this kinda thing. I anneal brass and push back my shoulders minimally, so brass lasts a long time (meaning I don't usually have to redevelop for new brass).
 

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Different brass have different volumes, different volumes lead to different pressure, different pressure leads to different velocity, different velocity leads to different groups.
 

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I do not reload, a good friend of mine does. he loaded some super accurate 7mm-08 rounds for my son last year. i bought a bunch of brass off fellow members here. all of the rounds last year were remington brass. this year we shot winchester and remington brass. the winchester nickle plated brass are super accurate. the remington brass will not hold much of a group even at 100 yards. everything is the same except for the brass.

my question is: will the different brass cause this to happen ? he is out of town and i cant ask him.
A few points & questions:

1) You are talking all the other components are the same: Same powder & powder lot, same primer, same bullet?

2) Same exact dies, same exact setup?

3) Brass of the same cartridge from different manufacturers have different thicknesses. If one is allot thicker than the other, it will hold less powder. So, if you are loading very full or compressed loads, the thicker brass may end up having higher pressures. So to, the thicker brass will hold the bullet harder using the same loading dies set to exactly same settings. So that too may yield higher pressures.

4) You mentioned that you got the brass from different folks, therefor it was fired in different guns and you got that brass fire-sized to those guns chambers. Are you full length sizing or just neck sizing? IF it was not fired in your chamber the first time, when reloading you MUST full length size the brass. If your reloading your own brass for a quality bolt action, only then might you be able to get away with just neck sizing.
 

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This is why I went to flat spot load development (see my post on it). I had the same thing happen. Had a load go faster by over 100fps by simply changing cans of the same powder from one can to another.

The flat spot method has given me a way to establish a speed where I get the accuracy I want, and when I change powder lots, I just need to find where the speed is what it should be, and then I'm good to go.

This winter I am planning to start buying into 8lb jugs of the powders I will be using and working out of them to avoid this kinda thing. I anneal brass and push back my shoulders minimally, so brass lasts a long time (meaning I don't usually have to redevelop for new brass).
Interesting I will certainly check your post out. I dont shoot as much as I should and I neck resize as long as possible before doing a full length resize. My brass seems to last a long time. I really need to get a gun or two that is fun to shoot 100+ rounds out of at a time. 15 or so from my hunting rifle (300 mag) is enough for it to stop being fun and start costing me some money. 8lb just seems like a good plan as well. How did you find the flat spot method?
 

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Reloading friends of mine read about it, tried it, suggested it to me.

I've run three rifles on it now and I've gotten submoa groups out of all three inside of 40 rounds down range from start to finished/zero'ed rifle.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
A few points & questions:

1) You are talking all the other components are the same: Same powder & powder lot, same primer, same bullet?

2) Same exact dies, same exact setup?

3) Brass of the same cartridge from different manufacturers have different thicknesses. If one is allot thicker than the other, it will hold less powder. So, if you are loading very full or compressed loads, the thicker brass may end up having higher pressures. So to, the thicker brass will hold the bullet harder using the same loading dies set to exactly same settings. So that too may yield higher pressures.

4) You mentioned that you got the brass from different folks, therefor it was fired in different guns and you got that brass fire-sized to those guns chambers. Are you full length sizing or just neck sizing? IF it was not fired in your chamber the first time, when reloading you MUST full length size the brass. If your reloading your own brass for a quality bolt action, only then might you be able to get away with just neck sizing.
EVERYTHING is the same except for the brass. set-up, dies, powder (same can) bullets. when he sized the brass, he full sized the brass and cut to length if he had to. he even used a micrometer to make sure they were all the same size.
 

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As was mentioned, changing brass will generally change internal volume.

That changes pressure.

Pressure changes result in changes in velocity and barrel harmonics.

Changes in velocity and barrel harmonics = changes in accuracy/results on paper.
 

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As was mentioned, changing brass will generally change internal volume.

That changes pressure.

Pressure changes result in changes in velocity and barrel harmonics.

Changes in velocity and barrel harmonics = changes in accuracy/results on paper.

All correct but......you can usually see a difference in group size caused by using different cases in very accurate rifles (lets say rifles which shoot less than 1 MOA). Not so much with groups shot with hunting rifles (say rifles which usually over 1 MOA). I mix cases all the time for hunting rifles and never notice a measurable difference. In sub MOA rifles I do find differences and segregate brass.

Buhunr said that his 7mm/08 was very accurate. They used Remington cases last year and it was accurate which I assume he means tight groups.

This year they used Winchester and Remington cases and the Winchester cases were accurate and the Remington "would not hold a group".

If the Remington cases shot good last year and not so good this year I suspect something other than the cases.

A couple of questions.

How tight were the groups last year?

How tight are the groups from the Remington and Winchester cases this year?
 

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I see to recall reading one time that using nickel brass has a bigger impact on loads than using traditional brass of different makes. So in short, yes different brass can make a difference, and this difference is magnified if you are mixing nickel and traditional brass.
 

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I hated it at the time I could not find Winchester brass for my 2 wildcats based off of 284 brass. I swithched to Laupa brass and will never go back even f I find the other. Better brass yields better accuracy,
 

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the answer is yes.


I worry about that in my big game hunting ammo (30/06, 7mm-08, 300 BLK) and my fur taking stuff (223 and soon 204). In my blasting ammo (5.56 and 300 BLK), where were are just training with the AR's (double taps, etc) I don't worry about it. I don't hunt with pistol anymore, so all that is plinking stuff for training for my annual certification.


Do a test of your brass. trim it to the length that you are using and weigh each casing.. you may see a big difference amongst brands.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
All correct but......you can usually see a difference in group size caused by using different cases in very accurate rifles (lets say rifles which shoot less than 1 MOA). Not so much with groups shot with hunting rifles (say rifles which usually over 1 MOA). I mix cases all the time for hunting rifles and never notice a measurable difference. In sub MOA rifles I do find differences and segregate brass.

Buhunr said that his 7mm/08 was very accurate. They used Remington cases last year and it was accurate which I assume he means tight groups.

This year they used Winchester and Remington cases and the Winchester cases were accurate and the Remington "would not hold a group".

If the Remington cases shot good last year and not so good this year I suspect something other than the cases.

A couple of questions.

How tight were the groups last year?

How tight are the groups from the Remington and Winchester cases this year?
the groups last year were right around an inch at 100 yards. we didnt re-load last years brass this year, this is used stuff i bought on-line as was the brass we used last year. supposedly shot once. it was full length re-sized, checked for cracks, trimmed and measured by my buddy. but this year something is off with the remington brass. the groups at 100 are more than 2 inches and shoot about 6 inches high with the exact same loads and materials as last year.

the winchester nickle plated brass shoots spot on, at 100 yards, group size is an inch or less. same technique, same materials, same everything.

its gotta be the remington brass. gonna go to my buddys house tomorrow and shoot some more so he can see.
 

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bohunr

You have spiked my curiosity.

Do you have the Remington brass from last year? I would reload that and shoot it to see how it compares to the recent Remington brass. I would also check the cases for capacity. I have never seen a case make that much difference but your experiencing it.

Good luck! Let us know how you make out.
 

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Why not use the brass from before that worked well?

Rem brass isn’t known for their consistency. You could have a variation just from lot to lot with them.
 

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Just have to add. Double check that your scope rings, mounts, and action screws are tight. I have had lose action screws mess me up and cause some interesting results at the bench.
 
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