The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,221 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just wondering what you guys use for powder in the flash pan vs what you put down the muzzle. I've heard alot of different combo's from different people. I want to have something that will have the lease amount of delay in my flinter. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,369 Posts
archeryman32 said:
Where can you get FFFF? I cannot find it anywhere?
1 of Your Locations says Carlisle PA
Call Bass Pro in Harrisburg, Harrisburg, York and Shippinsburg Gander Mountains, West shore Guns in Marysville and some of the other shops around you....

Ask the if they have it, they do NOT set black powder out on the shelves any longer, it is kept in a back room somewhere!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,388 Posts
What is used down the muzzle depends a great deal on the caliber. Old general wisdom was 3fg for 45 caliber and under and 2fg for those calibers above 45 and once we get to 75 caliber muskets perhaps even 1fg. In addition, frontiersmen frequently used charges that were about the same as the caliber, ie 45 caliber 45 grains and a patched round ball. 50 cal and 50 grains.

With modern steel guns and MODERATE loads, 3fg can be used in even a 54 cal.

Problem is that Americans in general always figure that if some is good, more must be better. So we have guys posting threads that they use 5 gazillion grains of flubadub powder and get 48,000 ft per second velocity. So some guy with a cheap muzzleloader hand forged in the Khyber pass goes out and duplicates the load and blows half his face off.

For white tail in eastern hunting conditions, there is no reason to use more 100 grains in any modern gun. Even less in a 45 cal.

There is also a point of dimishing returns. ie the powder burns slow enought that it isn't all consumed before the ball/bullet leaves the muzzle. The remainder is wasted in muzzle flash and causes increased fouling in the bore. For many short barrels 24 to 28 inches, in 50 caliber, that is right around 80 to 90 grains of 2fg powder.

There is another consideration. How far will you shoot? Some folks want to boost velocity so they get flatter trajectory. But under 75 yards, it really doesn't make much difference on deer sized animals. At 100 yds it may make a difference, but as the ball reaches sonic speeds, it piles air up in front of it causing a sonic speed ball to start out faster but decelerates faster over distance than a sub sonic speed ball. According to Lyman's Black Powder handbook First Edition, An extra 50 % of powder at 125 yard is only about 10 or 15% faster than the ball that starts out slower, with less powder. So the long distance benefits of the extra powder are (1) partially wasted in muzzle flash and (2)nearly erased by the effect of air piling up in front of that higher speed ball.

Now most hunters using muzzleloaders are using 50 caliber guns. Compared to 2fg powder, 3fg will generally burn a bit hotter, faster and cleaner, and with higher pressure in a 50 caliber. Some folks will figure a slightly smaller charge of 3fg for their 50 cal, than when using 2fg. and that is wise.

So, for my 50 cal long rifle, I use 4fg in the pan, and 80 grains of 2fg in the barrel. In my 58 caliber smooth bore, I use the same, whether I am using patched ball or shot. In the 45 rifle I use a 70 grain charge of 3fg.

All of these guns have barrels over 36 inches.

If it is going to be rainy and wet, I mix a little Lycopodium powder with the primer powder. (maybe 5%) It makes water bead up on it without soaking in. If you dust the lock area of the barrel and lock with the powder water will roll right off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,052 Posts
zimmerstutzen said:
If it is going to be rainy and wet, I mix a little Lycopodium powder with the primer powder. (maybe 5%) It makes water bead up on it without soaking in. If you dust the lock area of the barrel and lock with the powder water will roll right off.
Great tip. What is lycopodium and where can you get it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
502 Posts
FFF in the pipe FFFF in the pan same thing I've been doing for years. It works not changing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,794 Posts
zimmerstutzen said:
What is used down the muzzle depends a great deal on the caliber. Old general wisdom was 3fg for 45 caliber and under and 2fg for those calibers above 45 and once we get to 75 caliber muskets perhaps even 1fg. In addition, frontiersmen frequently used charges that were about the same as the caliber, ie 45 caliber 45 grains and a patched round ball. 50 cal and 50 grains.

With modern steel guns and MODERATE loads, 3fg can be used in even a 54 cal.

Problem is that Americans in general always figure that if some is good, more must be better. So we have guys posting threads that they use 5 gazillion grains of flubadub powder and get 48,000 ft per second velocity. So some guy with a cheap muzzleloader hand forged in the Khyber pass goes out and duplicates the load and blows half his face off.

For white tail in eastern hunting conditions, there is no reason to use more 100 grains in any modern gun. Even less in a 45 cal.

There is also a point of dimishing returns. ie the powder burns slow enought that it isn't all consumed before the ball/bullet leaves the muzzle. The remainder is wasted in muzzle flash and causes increased fouling in the bore. For many short barrels 24 to 28 inches, in 50 caliber, that is right around 80 to 90 grains of 2fg powder.

There is another consideration. How far will you shoot? Some folks want to boost velocity so they get flatter trajectory. But under 75 yards, it really doesn't make much difference on deer sized animals. At 100 yds it may make a difference, but as the ball reaches sonic speeds, it piles air up in front of it causing a sonic speed ball to start out faster but decelerates faster over distance than a sub sonic speed ball. According to Lyman's Black Powder handbook First Edition, An extra 50 % of powder at 125 yard is only about 10 or 15% faster than the ball that starts out slower, with less powder. So the long distance benefits of the extra powder are (1) partially wasted in muzzle flash and (2)nearly erased by the effect of air piling up in front of that higher speed ball.

Now most hunters using muzzleloaders are using 50 caliber guns. Compared to 2fg powder, 3fg will generally burn a bit hotter, faster and cleaner, and with higher pressure in a 50 caliber. Some folks will figure a slightly smaller charge of 3fg for their 50 cal, than when using 2fg. and that is wise.

So, for my 50 cal long rifle, I use 4fg in the pan, and 80 grains of 2fg in the barrel. In my 58 caliber smooth bore, I use the same, whether I am using patched ball or shot. In the 45 rifle I use a 70 grain charge of 3fg.

All of these guns have barrels over 36 inches.

If it is going to be rainy and wet, I mix a little Lycopodium powder with the primer powder. (maybe 5%) It makes water bead up on it without soaking in. If you dust the lock area of the barrel and lock with the powder water will roll right off.
That's some cool stuff Zim!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,369 Posts
bruno said:
zimmerstutzen said:
If it is going to be rainy and wet, I mix a little Lycopodium powder with the primer powder. (maybe 5%) It makes water bead up on it without soaking in. If you dust the lock area of the barrel and lock with the powder water will roll right off.
Great tip. What is lycopodium and where can you get it?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=Lycopodium+powder&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=


Take your pick, you will learn a lot about it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
380 Posts
Ok, I know I will probbley be told I am wrong, but I use FFFF in both the pan and in the pipe. It has always workerd great for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,388 Posts
OK, here's the rub. Lycopodium powder is used in chem labs in educational institutions. It is difficult to get it and most suppliers will ship it only to educational institutions. It is extremely light and 25 grams would go a very long way. I remembered using the stuff in college physics labs and how it was impervious to water. I had the opportunity to purchase a small amount many years ago. I got, perhaps 10 grams and use it sparingly. You can dust in onto the lock area with a soft brush, sort of like the CSI folks are shown doing on TV.

Here's one site for the stuff

http://sciencekit.com/lycopodium/p/IG001...cd2/1260890273/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,275 Posts
The .54 cal renegade gets 4f in the pan and 2f down the tube.

And the .50 cal deerstalker gets 4f in the pan and 3f down the tube.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,815 Posts
What Zimmer said. Been doing that when hunting with a flintlock even before PA had a flintlock season.

I use the smallest possible charge in the pan, it improve main charge ignition time. and doesn't 'explode' in my face.

In 1970 I bought some Lyco, small bottle was $10. I still have it 9about half full). I add a slmall amount to my FFFF powder can. It takes a lot of shooting to use a pound of ffff for pan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,428 Posts
yesterday i saw a VERY nice traditions rifle, it was a "mountain" model....it was $635.....very very nive gun though ( just going by how the gun looked compared to other traditions i have seen, this gun did not look cheap or poorly put together)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,785 Posts
I have a Firestorm and love it!!! I use 90gr FF down the tube and use FFFF in the pan. And I've learned that less is more in the pan!!
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top