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Discussion Starter #1
This is tricky. When you measure a load for an inline or traditional muzzleloader do you use the weight of the charge or volume? Reason I ask is I noticed a difference today.
 

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When you're using BP or substitutes like Pyrodex or Triple7, you measure by volume. (Or volume equivalent if pellets)
Pretty sure there's load data for Blackhorn 209 for both weight and volume... I haven't played with it yet, so I'm not certain...

The few rifles out there that can handle smokeless (I refuse to jump in that game) are by weight only.
 

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With what powder????? Black powder has a certain density which tends to be fairly uniform from maker to maker and grade to grade. So you measure by volume the equivalent of 60 grains of black powder. You actually get about 60 grains by weight of black powder. Fake black powders are made to be measured by the same volume equivalent as black powder, but some are substantially less in density. So a 60 grain black powder volume of Pyrodex might only actually weigh 35 grains. What ever black powder or black substitute you use (except for pellets) use the black powder volume measure, even if the fake powder weighs less. A few of the fake powders are significantly more powerful than black powder and sometimes folks use 15% less VOLUME of Pyrodex to equal the same oomph as black powder.

How close you measure is to actual weight of real black powder can also vary a lot from one pour of powder to the next. Always tap the side of the measure and get the powder to settle to get the most consistent measuring from shot to shot.
 

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With what powder????? Black powder has a certain density which tends to be fairly uniform from maker to maker and grade to grade. So you measure by volume the equivalent of 60 grains of black powder. You actually get about 60 grains by weight of black powder. Fake black powders are made to be measured by the same volume equivalent as black powder, but some are substantially less in density. So a 60 grain black powder volume of Pyrodex might only actually weigh 35 grains. What ever black powder or black substitute you use (except for pellets) use the black powder volume measure, even if the fake powder weighs less. A few of the fake powders are significantly more powerful than black powder and sometimes folks use 15% less VOLUME of Pyrodex to equal the same oomph as black powder.

How close you measure is to actual weight of real black powder can also vary a lot from one pour of powder to the next. Always tap the side of the measure and get the powder to settle to get the most consistent measuring from shot to shot.
zimmer- I'm on the edge of getting started if I can get this barrel clear of fouling and minor rust (lots to learn). What do you mean by "fake powder"?
 

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The old TC books always said measure by volume... Supposedly if you measure the new substitute powders by weight you get a 20-30% increase over a volume measure...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I measured 80 grains by volume of American Pioneer powder and it blew the bolt back on my Knight rifle to the cocked position. It's a plunger type bolt. I went home a weighted the 80 grains by volume on my powder scale it it was showing 62 grains weight. I called Knight and asked what was the recommended load for this rifle. They said 110 grains weight. NO WAY am I going to try that one. Guy said the rifle was designed for triple 7 powder. Does Triple 7 not burn as hot? I guess I better try some different powders.
 

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I measured 80 grains by volume of American Pioneer powder and it blew the bolt back on my Knight rifle to the cocked position. It's a plunger type bolt. I went home a weighted the 80 grains by volume on my powder scale it it was showing 62 grains weight. I called Knight and asked what was the recommended load for this rifle. They said 110 grains weight. NO WAY am I going to try that one. Guy said the rifle was designed for triple 7 powder. Does Triple 7 not burn as hot? I guess I better try some different powders.

If the person you talked to said 110 grains weight, they didn't know what they were talking about. BP and all BP substitutes are ALWAYS measured by volume, not weight. Below is straight out of a Knight manual (bold mine):

Never exceed the recommended maximum powder charge for your Knight muzzle-loader Please see individual models for recommended load limits of Black Powder FFg, or industry approved black powder substitute by volume or its equivalent for Knight RiflesSee your specific rifle’s page for maximum powder charges
 

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If the person you talked to said 110 grains weight, they didn't know what they were talking about. BP and all BP substitutes are ALWAYS measured by volume, not weight. Below is straight out of a Knight manual (bold mine):

Yup.
 
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I switched over to Blackhorn 209 from T7 pellets and I find that weighing produces the best shot after shot accuracy. When I first started working up a load, I verified by volume to be safe. The max charge for Blackhorn is 84 grains by weight which should be 120 grains by volume depending on which volumetric tube you use, which is one of the problems with volume measurements. My current charge is 77 grains (weighed in grams out to 3 decimals = 4.990) with a 250 grain Hornady SST and Harvester short sabot. I'll weigh out the charges in small glass vials before going to the range or out in the field.

The main thing about measuring by volume is to be consistent. If you tap the volumetric tube to allow the powder to settle before loading (especially blackhorn because of the cylindrical shape of the granules), you should repeat this procedure for each load to be consistent.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well the guy I talked to must have been the janitor. I always used a powder measure that measures grains in volume. That's what threw me when the guy said weight. I didn't take his advice. I've shot muzzle loaders since the early 70's but this is my first in line. I didn't think 80 grains volume was that high but it scared me. I always went with volume.

Anyone know is in normal for a plunger type bolt to move back to the cocked position? I didn't think so. This is a Knight LK-93 (same as the Wolverine)
 

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.

The main thing about measuring by volume is to be consistent. .


Well sure I get that. But I can use my favorite self made powder measure, or pour powder over a ball in my hand until its covered or use a brass marked powder measure and still have a patched round ball touch the last hole I just shot in the paper. But admittedly this is with flintlocks. maybe inline rifles are more picky. :grin2:
 
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Put a RB in the middle of your open hand.Slowly pour BP over the RB till covered.Thats your charge.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well the guy I talked to must have been the janitor, I always used a powder measure that measures grains in volume. That's what threw me when the guy said weight. I didn't take his advice. I've shot muzzle loaders since the early 70's but this is my first in line. I didn't think 80 grains volume was that high but it scared me. I always went with volume.

Anyone know is in normal for a plunger type bolt to move back to the cocked position? I didn't think so. This is a Knight LK-93 (same as the Wolverine)
 

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If the person you talked to said 110 grains weight, they didn't know what they were talking about. BP and all BP substitutes are ALWAYS measured by volume, not weight. Below is straight out of a Knight manual (bold mine):

Yup.
nope bh 209 is by weight or volume :: my load for on of omega is 81 grains by weight or 110 by volume. I measure all my charges by weight then verified by volume. Then again I gave up on all the other subs and just use bh 209 in my inlines or smokeless in my my sml.
 

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I always weigh. I shoot Holy Black exclusively, but even when I shot Triple 7, I weighed. I had the conversion formula/ chart for it.
Is weighing necessary? Not really. BUT, it does remove a variable when seeking accuracy. Wieghed charges are the most consistent too. My Firehawk, shooting a 250 grain 45 cal. Hornady XTP in a Harvester crush rib sabot and 70 grains of 3f Swiss black gives me shot to shot variations of 2 to 7 fps. Never got smokeless, or any other powder in breech or muzzloader to shoot that consistently.
Weigh away! Just use the conversion tables for anything other than black powder.
Good fortune to you
 

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I load blackpowder by volume, but after taking the time to work up the most accurate load for a rifle I will weigh that charge in case that powder measure is ever lost.

all powder measures (even the same brand) will not weigh 70 grains by volume the same.
 
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