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I had to wait until I was 12. I have no problem with putting a limit on age. I agree with a lot of you that said that simply being in the woods with Mom or Dad can fuel the internal fire without the "pressure" of harvesting an animal. My parents use to take my brother and I on walks almost every weekend when we were little. I looked forward to those trips! But one of my fondest memories from my childhood was sitting in my grandparent's kitchen, leaning over the back of the sofa they had in the corner, looking out the window on the opening day of "Buck Season". Waiting some what patiently for the hunters to return, hopefully with buck in tow. I can't tell you how many deer I saw from that "stand". I was literally a ball of energy with anticipation. During that time I never once gave any thought to being out there with the guys, carrying a gun. Maybe it was because I knew I had to wait until I was 12... but most likely it had more to do with the fact that I was within easy striking distance to Grandma's cooking and nice warm blankets on the coldest of the days.
I also know of at least one guy that took advantage of the mentored youth program. Took his 4 year old turkey hunting one spring. When questioned about it by a friend he openly admitted that the kid usually fell asleep and he would harvest the gobbler. He pretty much said, hey why not go out and get the big one before the other guys get a chance to go after them and make them call shy. I have a feeling there are more out there like him. What does the kid really learn other than having to get up early just to go sit, fall asleep and have Dad kill a turkey.
I plan to introduce my daughters to hunting, but if they choose not to hunt then so be it. They won't participate in mentored youth hunting for big game, just because I don't see then need for them to. I may let them plink around for bushy tails, but that will be their decision. Hunting is a wonderful thing to me. It is something I cherish. But I do not plan to push it onto my girls. They are more than welcome to join me if they choose to. I do fear with M.Y. hunting they way it is now, too many kids are being pushed into it and being used as just another tag and not grasping the true beauty of the experience. Don't get me wrong though, I read a lot of the success stories on the M.Y. thread and a lot of guys and gals are doing it right! I just don't think some regs and standards would be such a bad thing. And I agree with 4C, I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of class, maybe not a full blown H.E. course, but something.
 
I agree with Fleroo and dce's first post was good. We do need a min age, 9 would be appropriate, IMO.
I've coached enough little league baseball to know most kids are not ready to hunt and kill before this age.
One of the worse thing a mentor can do is let a child shoot a gun that they can't handle. I had my daughter shooting skeet with a 20 gauge semi, light loads, at a very early age, and loved it. Went off to GS camp, and after a few shots with a not so light kicking gun, never shot trap again. She did ge hert hunter safety card and went on one squirrel hunt with me, but after shooting a couple decided it wasn't her cup of tea. She did continue to fish for a number of years after, even got pretty good with a fly rod.
 
dpms said:
There are stats available that show the numbers in each age group that have mentored licenses. The number of kids less than 6 is miniscule. The numbers between 6 and 8 grows quite a bit and the numbers between 8 and 12 predominate.

As usual, Weaner and Schreffler are on the wrong side of the issue, yet again. Kids can fish, let the fish die from suffocation on a stringer, gut the fish and eat the fish with nobody batting a eye, yet we argue about taking a 6 year old hunting in this state. Who cares. The program has been proven safe and has gotten kids into the outdoors for precious time with the mentors.

This is one of those issues and debates that I see as disheartening with out sport under attack like never before. We fight ourselves about hunting and worse, fight about letting kids hunt.
on the money !!!I hate the "not ready to kill" argument. watching a fish gasp on a stringer is OK at an early age but taking a deer or squirrel is not?? Dead is Dead!!!
 
In my opinion if the PGC imposes an age requirement it is a big mistake and will take the program a step back instead of a step forward.

First of all the program is a very safe program. If you look at the statistics in PA and across the nation a mentored youth program has proven to be very safe. A youth that is hunting with a mentor is actually safer than an adult according to the statistics. HTE is not needed since a mentor has to be with the youth at all times and must carry the loaded weapon. The mentor is responsible for all actions of the child. Now I will be the first to say that I think a program or class designed towards a mentored youth age kids would be a great idea and would just help reinforce what the parent is teaching. Some people argue that some adults are bad mentors and that is why the HTE class is needed. In my opinion if a child has a bad mentor the 12 hours of HTE instruction is not really going to change that.

Kids can understand and handle the death of an animal. In my opinion it is all in how the kid is raised. My kids have gone with me hunting since they were probably two years old. They helped skin and gut rabbits, deer, squirrels etc from that age. They understood that the animal was dead and that it would be dinner in a few nights.

As far as the argument that some adults are using the MY tags to take extra/illegal animals, well I am sure that it happens, but if someone wants to take an illegal deer they are going to find a way to do it anyhow. There are guys that knock the antlers off a sub-ar buck and then tag it with a doe tag. Should we eliminate doe tags to prevent that from happening?

I guess my question for those against is what negative impacts has the program had? How does me taking my Mentored youth negatively impact you? One thing that I always notice is people always are focused on them taking deer. Why is there no complaints about the other species that they are permitted to hunt?

In conclusion the program is working fine so why change it. Only a parent knows when a child is ready. I would also hope that if the BOC does implement an age that they grandfather in any MY that previously had a permit. I don’t think it would fair to a child that was permitted to hunt one year, but then must wait a year or two before doing it again.
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
Oh yeah... dead is certainly dead, no mistaken dead. I think Weaner is questioning who the one's are that are doin the "deadin".

Still waiting on that shotgun make/model that the 6 yo shouldered to take the Gobbler. Maybe the fella logged off. Bonzy, do you know of such a model ? I'd like to check them out. Nothing I've found yet matches up with the youngins I've got the plans for.
 
BONZy said:
dpms said:
There are stats available that show the numbers in each age group that have mentored licenses. The number of kids less than 6 is miniscule. The numbers between 6 and 8 grows quite a bit and the numbers between 8 and 12 predominate.

As usual, Weaner and Schreffler are on the wrong side of the issue, yet again. Kids can fish, let the fish die from suffocation on a stringer, gut the fish and eat the fish with nobody batting a eye, yet we argue about taking a 6 year old hunting in this state. Who cares. The program has been proven safe and has gotten kids into the outdoors for precious time with the mentors.

This is one of those issues and debates that I see as disheartening with out sport under attack like never before. We fight ourselves about hunting and worse, fight about letting kids hunt.
on the money !!!I hate the "not ready to kill" argument. watching a fish gasp on a stringer is OK at an early age but taking a deer or squirrel is not?? Dead is Dead!!!
Glad to know there are others that feel that we need to get out of others lives and let parents raise their kids how they want to. Hunters are gonna fight themselves right out of the woods just as gun owners are gonna fight themselves out of their rights.
 
Kids are all different.I've been mind conditioning my son since he was born.I took him out this year during the youth season on kind of a trial basis.It was a cold wet day for that time of year but he stuck it out without complaining once.We saw a small amount of deer that day and he missed a gimmee shot at less than 30 yards after sitting for about 3.5 hours.The deer had up pegged when she stepped into the open and was probably out of his scope when he pulled the trigger.At first I was a little bummed but realized that if he killed a deer his first day out,he would always expect success.I'll never forget the look on his face when he was trying to get on that deer.He was as serious as a heart attack.I made him work at hunting.We didn't sit in a blind.He didn't take any games and we didn't hunt over a foodplot.We scouted and hunted fresh sign.We also watched the wind and had two very close doe bust us once when the wind swirled.We had a blast and he's hooked.I know he has what it takes and I couldn't have been more proud of him.His harvest was great but it was his overall enthusiasm,willingness to learn and attitude that was truly refreshing.

I tried with my daughter when she was younger.She loves the outdoors but it somewhat of a bunnyhugger so I doubt she'll ever hunt.She did show some interest this year.I'll encourage it if she really wants to do it but she'll have to put in a pile of work between now and then if I'm going to take her.If they're gonna be serious about hunting,they have to be serious about the preperation.To me,that's the funnest part anyway.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
I would also hope that if the BOC does implement an age that they grandfather in any MY that previously had a permit. I don’t think it would fair to a child that was permitted to hunt one year, but then must wait a year or two before doing it again.
Yep, the fly in the ointment. I agree with you there. It would be tough telling an 8 year old with a year of MY under his belt, that they no longer qualify.
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
Hunters are gonna fight themselves right out of the woods just as gun owners are gonna fight themselves out of their rights.
C'mon dpms. There's contention and disagreeance in every aspect of life. Hunting, Guns, Religion, sports, jobs, politics. Predicting the end of anything because of contention is an oft used mantra that is simply over the top.
 
Fleroo said:
I would also hope that if the BOC does implement an age that they grandfather in any MY that previously had a permit. I don’t think it would fair to a child that was permitted to hunt one year, but then must wait a year or two before doing it again.


Yep, the fly in the ointment. I agree with you there. It would be tough telling an 8 year old with a year of MY under his belt, that they no longer qualify.
X2! In no way do I want to see it TAKEN away, I just want them ALL to take classes, pass classes and learn the way things should be, by trained professionals BEFORE carrying a gun into the field. I'm not against MY, just the way it has been carried out with safety on the shelf. Some of you are GREAT parents, but we all know the ones out there that have no business being the MY's only teacher on gun safety and hunting regs.
 
think this is a very good topic, has crossed my mind several times. but the thing that really crosses my mind is not the childs ability, or whether the their equipment fits them. but the mental aspects , that killing will have on a child of that age. we all have seen children in the petting zoos petting bambie. and then they take that child out to kill one, my question are they metally ready to take a life.
 
Fleroo said:
Oh yeah... dead is certainly dead, no mistaken dead. I think Weaner is questioning who the one's are that are doin the "deadin".

Still waiting on that shotgun make/model that the 6 yo shouldered to take the Gobbler. Maybe the fella logged off. Bonzy, do you know of such a model ? I'd like to check them out. Nothing I've found yet matches up with the youngins I've got the plans for.
My son is 7 but probably on the smaller side.He has a 20ga mossberg bantam and it fits him perfect.They even make a smaller one but I imagine that would kick like a mule.An average sized 6 year old could use one of them with no problem.Most kids that age need a bipod of set of shooting sticks because they don't have the strength to hold steady.I had a Harris bipod on my son's rifle but it's a pain when you're in the woods hunting.I bought a Bog pod so he can shoot standing up.Every deer we killed this year was while still hunting.My son would carry the bipod and I'd carry the rifle.When we saw deer,he'd get the bipod ready and I'd set the rifle on it.After a few times,we were able to get him ready to shoot within a couple seconds.This year,I plan on having him shoot a couple thousand rounds with his elbow resting on his knee and just use the bipod for still hunting.
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
Mossberg Bantam.... thank you.

OT, but do you use shooting sticks ? I'm about to look for a good set of sticks for myself for use in flinter season. I've had my fill of off-hand misses this year, and think a set of sticks should help ? Any recommendations ? PM me if so.
 
big bucks only said:
think this is a very good topic, has crossed my mind several times. but the thing that really crosses my mind is not the childs ability, or whether the their equipment fits them. but the mental aspects , that killing will have on a child of that age. we all have seen children in the petting zoos petting bambie. and then they take that child out to kill one, my question are they metally ready to take a life.
My son has helped me track,gut,drag and cut up dozens of deer.He understood that dead it dead but has also been taught why animals have to die.A couple days after he killed a deer,he asked me if I felt bad when I kill something.I explained that I always feel a certain amount of remorse but also explained the chain of life and why we have to hunt and slaughter animals.He no doubt understands that death is final but also understands why we need to practice and only take good shots.He saw me make a lousy shot on a buck and saw how hard it was to recover that deer.I made him pass on more shots than he took.He was upset with me at the time but seeing one mortally wounded deer was all it took for him to understand why it's important to take good shots.
 
IMO I believe they do need to limit it. I really think they had it right to begin with when it was 12. I went with my Dad before that and consider that to be mentored. I reaaly don't think that most kids are physically ready for it till then and I know they don't understand at 6,7,8 years old everything that is inherently invloved in the sport, firearms etc.
 
Fleroo said:
Oh yeah... dead is certainly dead, no mistaken dead. I think Weaner is questioning who the one's are that are doin the "deadin".

Still waiting on that shotgun make/model that the 6 yo shouldered to take the Gobbler. Maybe the fella logged off. Bonzy, do you know of such a model ? I'd like to check them out. Nothing I've found yet matches up with the youngins I've got the plans for.
Fleroo,

I don't have a scattergun that my now 9 year old can shoulder 100% properly, Yet! He shoots bushytails with a Mossberg 500 20 guage but in honesty it still doesnt fit him perfectly. That said, I'm sure it wouldn't take much to have a stock cut for a smaller fella, maybe shorten the LOP up to 12" or so?? On the contrary I'm sure that given the right scenario he could take a Turkey with the Mossberg if given the opportunity.
 
Fleroo said:
Hunters are gonna fight themselves right out of the woods just as gun owners are gonna fight themselves out of their rights.
C'mon dpms. There's contention and disagreeance in every aspect of life. Hunting, Guns, Religion, sports, jobs, politics. Predicting the end of anything because of contention is an oft used mantra that is simply over the top.
2012 saw significant gains made to curtail sport hunting and 2013 will see significant gains made to curtail gun ownership. Same of these gains supported by hunters and gun owners.

Debate is a good thing. I have always stated that and have no problem with it. It is when opposition is based on emotion when we lose. Not allowing kids to hunt with their parents when the parents feel they are ready is a loss for hunting and erodes the foundation of our sport.
 
Fleroo said:
Mossberg Bantam.... thank you.

OT, but do you use shooting sticks ? I'm about to look for a good set of sticks for myself for use in flinter season. I've had my fill of off-hand misses this year, and think a set of sticks should help ? Any recommendations ? PM me if so.
I swear have every shooting stick and Bipod made.I went through a bunch this year finding the right one for my son.If you want to shoot standing,get Bog-pod.They're expensive but worth it because the head rotates.If you want to shoot sitting down only,A primos trigger stick is also nice.

With a flinter,you're probably just dropping your forearm.Any good monopod would work to cure that problem.They're lighter and faster to set up.
 
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