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Discussion Starter #1
Just wondering if any one here is shooting this combo. I know it can be done but i'm just looking for some feedback about it. I'm thinking about making the switch to these arrows but don't want to shoot victory's inserts along with this shaft. This shaft matched with the new QAD Exodus would be very scary punch!
 

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I don't know about Victory but if your looking for deep six Look at the easton carbon injexion . There a little heavy but man are they deadly and accurate. My arrows are 412 grains and I shoot the NAP kill zone. Awesome head as well Shot a bear pass through and in the dirt. Still sharp and perfect condition.
 

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Thae weight is what i don't care for in the Injexions. Thats why the VAP's fit me better.
 

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I thought the same thing last year about VAP's and Exodus being a scary combo, then I picked up VAP V1's with the new ICE coating and must say I was anything but impressed. I know the arrows were the correct spine, but I just could not get the accuracy out of them I can/have out of arrows of equal straightness, heck I have had .003 and .006 straightness arrows shoot far better than these supposed .001's. I was using the Victory outserts but all arrows spun true so they werent the accuracy issue, and yes the outserts suck in terms of durability which your obviously aware of since your searching out another option, but I will say the VAP's are definitely not as durable as their name would make you believe. I broke 3 shafts in 2 weeks hitting nothing harder than a block 4x4 layered target or 3d target. One arrow snapped about half way back the shaft when it hit the target, one shaft broke because the insert broke out the side of the shaft when shooting an angled shot on a 3d target (the insert was fine the shaft literaly split down the side), and the final straw/broken shaft came when I shot a 3d target with other arrows already in it and when my arrow hit the target it smacked a buddy's arrow, the shaft broke as I was "flexing" it to ensure it was still safe to shoot. Some would try to make an arguement for the 3rd shaft, but at that point I was just looking for a reason to snap all those POS's over my knee and if they werent so expensive I would have...but instead I offloaded them dirt cheap! I know some who sware by VAP's, but I just swore at them....you wont find them in my quiver, even though I wanted to like them SOOOOOOO BADDDDDDD

I am back to Gold Tip Pro Hunters and Radial X Weaves, of the 20-30 different arrow shafts/brands I have shot/owned they are by far the best/strongest, I know you said the VAP's were your choice because of weight over injexions, but in my oppinion you would be far happier with the slightly heavier/more durable injexions or kinetics by gold tip!
 

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I've killed almost 10 deer with the VAP V1s and victorys inserts. Every shot was a pass through. Not one broken arrow. Shot through two shoulder blades. Getting awesome accuracy with ramcats to 70 yards. Shooting 5" groups with broad heads out that far from my Carnage. Absolutely no complaints. Best penetrating arrow I've ever shot by far. I shot my buck in pa on opening day of gun quartering to me and it zipped through his scapula like it wasn't there. Same with a doe in early season. Buck in ohio was 40 yards. Stuck 4" in ground on other side.
 

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Well I've put mine to the test in real world applications. Its pretty rare I shoot that many deer with an arrow and not break one. The walls of the shaft are extremely thick. Ill shoot another doe on film after Christmas, and see if I can put another VAP through an opposite side shoulder blade. Heres a picture from the early season doe I shot. Smashed right through her shoulder blade and stuck in the ground.



You can see the hole off center low and right.
 

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bbd!5b said:
Hmmm. So are the durable or not?
Only way to know for sure is go pick up a few at the local shop and give em a shot. For me and my experiences, they are the WEAKEST of the new "slim" arrows. Kinetics are by far the toughest, followed by black eagles and injexions, leaving the VAP's at the bottom; these are based on my actual experiences/testing. I try to put my arrows through their paces on the range prior to heading to the field, I am not saying that VAP's wont perform in the field...heck just look at the above post for some they work great, but after my experiences with Victory's best VAP offering, V1's, on the range there was no way I was trying them on game.

I just dont agree with the whole slim arrow craze lately, once you throw ANY broadhead on the end of your arrow the diameter of your arrow being "slimmer" is a moot point in terms of penetration, less wind drift at longer distances heck yea but they do not increase penetration when a BH is on the front based solely on their slimmer diameter. The reason some think they get so much more penetration is they look at their block target on the range and see their arrows penetrating twice as far, so that means their the greatest penetrating arrow ever right???? WRONG.....That big outsert out front is way bigger than the arrow shaft, so when you shoot a block target which most of us know is a horrible medium for testing penetration to begin with, you will see it penetrate farter because the outsert clears a path twice the diameter of the arrow. You can also factor into that the increased FOC guys get with the outsert and that again increases penetration; you can do this with any arrow by shooting a heavier BH or with gold tips add insert weights for the same affect!

Ive gotten pass throughs and pulled arrows out of the ground on other side with all kinds of arrows, broadheads, and draw weight combinations......so how far someone had to pull an arrow out of the ground after shooting a deer means nothing to me and tells me nothing about their setup's ability to take game! Dont know what I am talking about go talk to the Traditional guys shooting far less weight, fat aluminum arrows, and long 2/4 blade bh's getting pass throughs regularly and yep they too have to pull their arrows out of the ground on the other side of animals!
 

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Its pretty obvious that you must have recieved a bad batch of arrows. For arrows to break hitting nothing but a 3d target is unacceptable, and exactly the opposite of what I have experienced over the last 18 months. I too have shot deer with just about every arrow you can think of, over 110 whitetails with a bow in the last 11 years. Could I have blown through should blades with other shafts? Absolutely. I did it regularly with Gold Tip pro hunters, velocity hunters, victory hvs, carbon express aramids, heck I blew through a doe at 64 yards with an Easton Redline 520 with a 57 grain rocket wolverine 4p broadhead out of my Bowtech Liberty back when I was 16 years old. Total arrow weight around 302 grains at 70 lbs draw weight (yes, 50 grains under IBO). Complete pass through shooting 55lbs and 2219s with 215 grain muzzy phantoms from my recurve. Ive killed 8 deer so far with the VAPs, from 10 to 40 yards, and have yet to have an arrow not pass through, even on a slightly quartering towards shot where I hit a ton of bone on a buck. Still no broken arrows either. After 3 years as an archery technician, testing and trying every arrow and broadhead combination you can imagine, and every bow too, I can tell you that they are absolutely the real deal. Having taken as many animals as I have with a bow, I wouldnt shoot them unless I was sure they would work.

As for slimmer diameter arrows penetrating better than a normal diameter, it all comes down to sectional density and shaft drag. Look at and read all the studies every done by Dr. Ashby, without a doubt the worlds foremost authority on penetration. I'll use a ton of his studies here to illustrate my point... Shoot a ping pong ball at a can and it will bounce off. Shoot a bb at the can at the same speed and it will penetrate. Even though they weigh the same, the object with a higher sectional density will always penetrate better with all other factors being the same. Does the insert have anything to do with it? Yes, but not everything. Objects with higher sectional density also conserve momentum more efficiently, which is crucial for penetration. We can also talk about shaft drag through a live animal. With any given shafting material and shaft finish, the larger a shaft’s diameter the greater will be the resistance to its penetration. It will present a larger frontal area to the tissues, displace a greater volume of tissue as it penetrates, and present more total surface area to the tissues (which results in a higher drag factor). It has been tested and proven that while shafts drag very litte through tissue, if the shafts diameter is less than that of the broadheads ferrule, which most area equal to, the penetration increases by and average of 10%. That can equate to as much as a 40 percent difference in measurable penetration between two arrows which are equal in all respects except for the diameter of the shaft. This is not theory. It is what average outcome measurements from comparable shots into real tissues show. It is a graphic demonstration of the importance of shaft drag as a factor in the overall resistance force when penetrating real tissues. The heavy tapered insert also greatly increases penetration in real tissues over tradition inserts, by adding weight up front, making the front of the shaft much larger in diameter and heavier than the back. Thus reducing rear shaft flexion, and shaft drag. The ICE coating on the VAPs also increases penetration by reducing the coefficient of friction between the shaft and tissues.

This goes for any arrow, and for all bow manufacturers touting kinetic energy, it really means nothing as far as penetration goes. If you want to learn about the penetration of your setup, calculate momentum, sectional density, and think about about shaft drag and friction between the shaft and tissues. There are of course tons of variables involved in every different situation when shooting a live animal, but if you really look at it, Victory has fulfilled all of the properties I talked about with not only their shaft design, but with the insert design as well, to create a fully built arrow that gives you the best penetration from a modern compound bow. It all starts with a great broadhead too. Without a great broadhead, none of this material is even relevant.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
and the best short story goes to?.....shootbowtech! Just kidding, alot of good info there.

So does any one have experience with the Deep Six inserts?
 
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