The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
684 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

"Veterans are increasingly being targeted by authorities as part of a broader move to demonize them as domestic extremists and even potential terrorists."

"The FBI has repeatedly characterized returning veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan as a major domestic terrorist threat. In addition, Homeland Security chief Janet Napolitano said she stood by an April 2009 DHS intelligence assessment that listed returning vets as likely domestic terrorists."

http://www.prisonplanet.com/veterans-guns-confiscated-after-forced-psychiatric-evaluation.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,719 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

I am all for everyones right to legaly buy/own guns, any type and magazine capacity. But; if someone is not mentally stable I support the fact that the weapons were removed. The article does not give any details on why these people were found to be mentally unstable. Just because someone doesnt have a criminal record or has had mental issues in the past doesnt mean that they can not become unstable. Not everyone should own guns or have access to them.

Articles like this are at the same level as the anti-gun BS being published. The people who write alot of this stuff only give the information that they want you to read. I know alot of vetrans, I dont know any that have been forced into psychiatric evaluations. There are over 23,000,000 vertrans in the US, using what happened to two of them hardly equals a plot against veteran's

Good luck, Tony
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,785 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

Tony300wby said:
I am all for everyones right to legaly buy/own guns, any type and magazine capacity. But; if someone is not mentally stable I support the fact that the weapons were removed. The article does not give any details on why these people were found to be mentally unstable. Just because someone doesnt have a criminal record or has had mental issues in the past doesnt mean that they can not become unstable. Not everyone should own guns or have access to them.

Articles like this are at the same level as the anti-gun BS being published. The people who write alot of this stuff only give the information that they want you to read. I know alot of vetrans, I dont know any that have been forced into psychiatric evaluations. There are over 23,000,000 vertrans in the US, using what happened to two of them hardly equals a plot against veteran's

Good luck, Tony
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

Tony300wby said:
I am all for everyones right to legaly buy/own guns, any type and magazine capacity. But; if someone is not mentally stable I support the fact that the weapons were removed. The article does not give any details on why these people were found to be mentally unstable. Just because someone doesnt have a criminal record or has had mental issues in the past doesnt mean that they can not become unstable. Not everyone should own guns or have access to them.

Articles like this are at the same level as the anti-gun BS being published. The people who write alot of this stuff only give the information that they want you to read. I know alot of vetrans, I dont know any that have been forced into psychiatric evaluations. There are over 23,000,000 vertrans in the US, using what happened to two of them hardly equals a plot against veteran's

Good luck, Tony
As a retired vet, with 2 tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, I completely agree. I know a handful of soldiers that I deployed with in a small aviation company that definitely could have used a forced psychiatric screening. We must remember during a time of war, enlistment standards drop. The government will take anyone to fill the boots and they know exactly what they are getting. So you see, they already know who they need to be on the look out for.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,894 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

excellent post Tony300. Not making an effort to keep guns out of the hands of someone with psych problems would be very irresponsible, veteran or not.

Could the increase in "targeting?" be caused by the increased number of vet trying to get disability for PTSD? I would think that kind of claim would warrent a check on a persons mental health.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,139 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

I don't care whether a person is a priest, veteran, police officer or John Q Public, a mentally unstable incident should be grounds to re-examine that persons right to wield ANY offensive weapon, not just firearms.

The problem is that some mental health professionals themselves have such warped attitudes about what is "abnormal" that any one with different views is considered to be of altered mental status. Anybody who ever watched Miracle on 34th Street saw how easy it was to railroad St Nick into a competency hearing. However, all it takes now is any doctor to sign a form to "302" an individual, saying it is necessary to admit the person for treatment or observation because he may hurt himself or others. Not that he will, but that the patient in some extreme circumstance MIGHT hurt himself or others. (Something that could be said of nearly every body when forced to defend themselves.)

Yes some mental health procedures and some child/spouse abuse procedures are being used to trample constitutional rights of people who simply have different views.

A protection from abuse order can be obtained on the flimsiest of evidence by stretching a few facts and suddenly a person is evicted from their home, has all their firearms seized and is forbidden to have contact with their children, etc.

The courts have a prejudice in case where fights break out between spouses, that the husband is the aggressor, and that the justification laws do not apply between spouses, and a conviction of domestic violence against a spouse, is an offense under federal law that prevents possession of firearms. Under state law, such a conviction may not be subject of an expungment for the purposes of getting firearms rights restored. A husband can't even use force to prevent a wife from destroying his property, although he could use force to keep anyone else from destroying his property.

We have a legal system, not necessarily a justice system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,046 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

PTSD Doesn't mean that we're going to snap and pull a John Rambo at the first person that makes us mad. It has nothing to do with mental health checks to see if we're sane or should be allowed to own guns.

The most common problems associated with PTSD are sleeplessness, anxiety, and panic attacks. Not blind fits of uncontrollable rage where we run around kicking puppies or some other nonsense.

The media loves to give stories of "veterans" who were in the military who do something stupid. 99% of the time, that person was an idiot before they joined the military and normally they hadn't even been deployed before. Sure, there are cases that people who served in Iraq or Afghanistan, did stupid stuff when they got back, but those are very rare.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,637 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

Exactly. PTSD does not mean psycho raging lunatic.

Besides who is defining these mental disorders. Can women who have experienced post partum have their rights removed? What about just being irratible on a re occurring monthly basis?

I don't know what the situation is with this guy and why he was FORCED to an evaluation. Neither do any of you.

But symptoms of PTSD can be experienced by more than just ex active duty military. Its a foot in the door. Next they'll be saying "well that guy just had a divorce and lost his kids and house" or "he just lost his job" or "that guys family was just killed by a drunk driver". They all need evaluated and their rights removed.

How many of us realize how many people are wrongly diagnosed as depressed and prescribed drugs? Even if only meant as a temporary solution. Your doctor could have a field day if he hated guns.

And at the end of the day, just how many people did we save versus the lives we've further ruined both financially and emotionally. You might want to live in such a Utopia, but I don't see it that way. I rather like having a little freedom and not being under a constant critical eye just waiting for me to show some sort of momentary sign that I can't deal with things for the moment.

When are we going to make each person responsible for themselves, rather than someone else responsible for what we do?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,139 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

If each person was responsible for themselves, we wouldn't have welfare, wouldn't need police, taxes would be minimal, kids would all get "A's" But too many people are not responsible for themselves. Many would rather steal than actually work for a living. If all those folks on welfare suddenly had to fend for themselves, banks and convenience store's would be robbed hourly. Too great a segment of society is mentally or emotionally unable to be responsible for themselves. How many Autistic or Intellectually challenged adults can function in society with out lots of help. Governments have been trying to figure out how to "make individuals responsible for themselves" for centuries.

Certain occupations lead to higher levels of stress. Look at the incidence of suicide among dentists. Shell shocked veterans have really been a casualty of war since the days before gun powder. In WW2, US army studies had it narrowed down to a specific number of weeks on the front before unacceptable levels of strain and stress ruined the effectiveness of the average soldier. As I recall it was something like 17 and a half weeks.

Audie Murphy, a very decorated hero and movie star, suffered for many years with bouts of rage, sleeplessness, etc He would never have been able to possess firearms today.

Everyone assumes the horror of war and that makes it easier to peg a mental problem on veterans regardless of whether one exists.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,534 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

The only way I would be that irratable and depressed is if I had my guns confiscated. What's their plan for those folks I wonder. Do you really think they won't get guns if they wanted??
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,894 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

If the PTSD is at a level that qualifies someone for SSI, It should also be considered at a level that disqualifies one from gun ownership IMHO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,139 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

When the Japanese invaded the Phillipines, the people came up with truly novel ways to fight back. They made explosive rockets from bamboo, shotguns from water pipe and a host of other ingenious devices.

Any idiot with a drill and chunk of scrap metal can make a gun. Instead of potato gun think molotov cocktail gun, or tennis ball mortar. I saw plans on line for a PVC spigot mortar. There a you tube video of an archer who used garage materials to make explosive arrows. Explosives can be made with meat curing chemicals and sugar. The methods of destruction are endless.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

hdt, apparently you don't know what qualify's for SSI now days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,046 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

hdt said:
If the PTSD is at a level that qualifies someone for SSI, It should also be considered at a level that disqualifies one from gun ownership IMHO.
Wrong.

1. Learn more about it and you'll realize that it is completely normal to experience symptoms of PTSD, and it is really just how our body and brain work. If we weren't wired that way, we'd still be living in caves worshiping the fire gods....

2. Veteran's PTSD claims go through the Veterans Administration, not the Social Security office. If you want to get treated for something and make sure that you can get the full benefits of the VA, it would behoove you to make a claim (and not all claims qualify you for money) because lets just say their process is the epitome of ineptitude in a government bureaucracy....

I myself have some symptoms of PTSD from my service in Iraq. One time, I was driving down the highway coming home from work and all of a sudden my heart was beating a mile a minute and I felt like an elephant was standing on my chest and that I couldn't breath. I thought I was having a heart attack or something at the ripe old age of 27 when really I was having a panic attack. What caused it? Who knows. Apparently something triggered my brain into thinking that we were back in a time and place when the road used to blow up when I was driving down it. When that happened it kicked in Fight or Flight mode and started dumping adrenaline and all sorts of other chemicals in my body preparing myself for a fight to the death essentially. Its a learned response that the brain has from past experiences.

Does that make me crazy and mentally unfit to own a gun? No. It simply means that my brain needs to re-train itself that those situations are no longer going to happen in my everyday life. Not every symptom of PTSD is running around in a blind rage, in fact that is a very rare occurrence and normally that individual was short fused to begin with. So please, learn about what PTSD really is and not base your opinion on what the media portrays Veterans as. We fight your wars for you, thats the least you can do.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,894 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

For PTSD- Under the guidelines of Section 12.06 you must have a difficulty functioning socially, your ability to concentrate must be affected, you must have experienced an extended period of worsening psychiatric symptoms and you must meet the other guidelines set forth by the Social Security Administration (SSA).

I would think the above would indicate that it's a good idea to keep guns out of the hands of the folks who qualify for disablilty for PTSD.
A problem with this maybe that it may keep some sufferers from risking being diagnosed with the condition.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,407 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

burninghxcsoul said:
hdt said:
If the PTSD is at a level that qualifies someone for SSI, It should also be considered at a level that disqualifies one from gun ownership IMHO.
Wrong.

1. Learn more about it and you'll realize that it is completely normal to experience symptoms of PTSD, and it is really just how our body and brain work. If we weren't wired that way, we'd still be living in caves worshiping the fire gods....

2. Veteran's PTSD claims go through the Veterans Administration, not the Social Security office. If you want to get treated for something and make sure that you can get the full benefits of the VA, it would behoove you to make a claim (and not all claims qualify you for money) because lets just say their process is the epitome of ineptitude in a government bureaucracy....

I myself have some symptoms of PTSD from my service in Iraq. One time, I was driving down the highway coming home from work and all of a sudden my heart was beating a mile a minute and I felt like an elephant was standing on my chest and that I couldn't breath. I thought I was having a heart attack or something at the ripe old age of 27 when really I was having a panic attack. What caused it? Who knows. Apparently something triggered my brain into thinking that we were back in a time and place when the road used to blow up when I was driving down it. When that happened it kicked in Fight or Flight mode and started dumping adrenaline and all sorts of other chemicals in my body preparing myself for a fight to the death essentially. Its a learned response that the brain has from past experiences.

Does that make me crazy and mentally unfit to own a gun? No. It simply means that my brain needs to re-train itself that those situations are no longer going to happen in my everyday life. Not every symptom of PTSD is running around in a blind rage, in fact that is a very rare occurrence and normally that individual was short fused to begin with. So please, learn about what PTSD really is and not base your opinion on what the media portrays Veterans as. We fight your wars for you, thats the least you can do.
First of all, thank you for your service!

That being said, and we can't say it loud enough or often enough, You have spelled out a perfectly rational example of a situation that could definitely interrupt a persons life and ability to work effectively at times without them being at any reasonable degree of risk of violence to himself or others.

Making blanket statements like has been done here leads to no good and I find it especially disturbing when directed at those who have served so the rest of us can be free to make such foolish statements whenever we want
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,750 Posts
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

zimmerstutzen said:
I am surprised there is no talk of banning knives and hatchets;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Brown_school_massacre
That was back when the public used better logic to assign blame. Even the criminal side of the issue assigned shame. I'm glad they didn't ban them. Alot of kids at rondys today would be disappointed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
684 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Re: Veteran’s Guns Confiscated After Forced ‘Psychiatr

Tony300wby said:
I am all for everyones right to legaly buy/own guns, any type and magazine capacity. But; if someone is not mentally stable I support the fact that the weapons were removed. The article does not give any details on why these people were found to be mentally unstable. Just because someone doesnt have a criminal record or has had mental issues in the past doesnt mean that they can not become unstable. Not everyone should own guns or have access to them.

Articles like this are at the same level as the anti-gun BS being published. The people who write alot of this stuff only give the information that they want you to read. I know alot of vetrans, I dont know any that have been forced into psychiatric evaluations. There are over 23,000,000 vertrans in the US, using what happened to two of them hardly equals a plot against veteran's

Good luck, Tony
Yeah, There wasn't much info so below is a link where he is interviewed by phone and also his email address is at the end of the article.
http://surviveandthrive.tv/navy-vet-david-schmecker-guns-confiscated-in-connecticut/#more-3118

While I understand it "is" the internet and not everything can be believed I do believe the article merits posting. I have a problem with the whole "mental stability" thing. How do we know if the people giving the evaluations aren't pushing their own agenda? While the article was titled "Veteran's Guns Confiscated after Forced Psychiatric evaluation" and that in itself is very alarming it wasn't the only reason I posted it.

What I had quoted in my first post I found really disturbing. The fact that our own government considers it's returning Veterans as "Likely Domestic Terrorists."
April 2009 DHS intelligence assessment that listed returning vets as likely domestic terrorists.
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top