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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The topic is antler restrictions.

What hunters should expect

More young bucks surviving to older age classes. The actual proportion of young bucks protected is dependent upon the appropriateness of the antler criteria selected, coupled with the degree of hunter compliance.

Significantly lower buck harvest initially, with somewhat lower buck harvest long term.

More and older bucks on the landscape may increase competition for breeding and may increase the intensity of the rut.

The population management goal (and thus overall deer numbers) for a unit would not change, but herd composition and harvest opportunity would change.

Are they needed?

NY’s deer population has shown rapid growth potential and shows no evidence of compromised breeding success. No significant change in herd productivity should be expected with antler restrictions.

Because the rut is largely dictated by seasonal day length changes, significant shifts in the timing of breeding should likewise not be expected.

In light of the above, DEC sees no compelling biological or management need for mandated antler restrictions.

If a clear biological or management advantage was to be expected, DEC would certainly support mandatory restrictions. Lacking such evidence, we believe that over whelming hunter support should be present before pursuing further mandatory restrictions.

The real key to successful deer management and a healthy herd is the right level of doe harvest.

Seems like someone has learned from the experiment conducted just south. Waugh!
 

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gotta compare apples to apples jim. 5 tags waiting for every buck here in pa. not every state has that kind of pressure on the antlered portion of their herd.
 

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As I recall, DEC would have expanded antler resriction to other WMU, but hunters were against it. Imagine that, considering hunters in making a decision.
 

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I just don't understand the stubborn reluctance in supporting antler restrictions. I don't care if it changes breeding patterns, the rut or anything else. As long as it doesn't do anything bad to the overall heard health then from a sportsment perspective as a hunter I want a little bit of a challange to shoot something other than the first dumb yearling that stumbles by me. I have practiced AR for 20 years for this reason alone. I see people cry
on these forums that the only thing AR does is possably increase antler size through older bucks..... OK. What is wrong with that? The same people who cry
about harvesting a cub bear or young jake turkey have no problem shooting that dumb young buck. Control the population through doe management, I didn't say wipe them out, but get them in line with their habitat and leave the bucks grow older for sport if no other reason.
 

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BigEarl said:
I just don't understand the stubborn reluctance in supporting antler restrictions. I don't care if it changes breeding patterns, the rut or anything else. As long as it doesn't do anything bad to the overall heard health then from a sportsment perspective as a hunter I want a little bit of a challange to shoot something other than the first dumb yearling that stumbles by me. I have practiced AR for 20 years for this reason alone. I see people cry
on these forums that the only thing AR does is possably increase antler size through older bucks..... OK. What is wrong with that? The same people who cry
about harvesting a cub bear or young jake turkey have no problem shooting that dumb young buck. Control the population through doe management, I didn't say wipe them out, but get them in line with their habitat and leave the bucks grow older for sport if no other reason.
 

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There always were big and good woodmen that could find and harvest them. Now that dumb 1 1/2 year old, ends up to be a dumb 2 1/2 year old.

I just feel that the AR should be made two to a side, not counting brow tines. Our PGC can make certain SGL's three, four or five to a side, let private landowner decide if they want to manage for trophy deer.
 

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Looks to me like New York is trying to get the word out about AR to gain support for AR.
 

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RWBROOKSJR said:
There always were big and good woodmen that could find and harvest them. Now that dumb 1 1/2 year old, ends up to be a dumb 2 1/2 year old.

I just feel that the AR should be made two to a side, not counting brow tines. Our PGC can make certain SGL's three, four or five to a side, let private landowner decide if they want to manage for trophy deer.
There is where the rub is. Someone earlier spilled the beans when they said they had 400 QDM acres but the deer wandered off and were killed by those not practicing QDM standards.

Truth is, we all practice QDM if we are hunting within the law. The PGC plan in place is QDM. Some seem to be selling the notion that we are not.
 

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I live and work not too far from the NY. border The people I know that hunt or live in NY.all have said they wish NY. would have a antler restriction like PA.

The plans were dropped following a public comment period that drew both strong opposition and support. DEC officials had said beforehand that that they wouldn't endorse the restrictions if more than 20 percent of the hunters in the areas were against it.
Just seems to me they could of raised the percentage a little higher than the 20 % against.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
gotta compare apples to apples jim. 5 tags waiting for every buck here in pa. not every state has that kind of pressure on the antlered portion of their herd.
The point is we still always had enough bucks left over to get the breeding done on time. The herd was still expanding beyond the food supply. Nothing is gained with the new AR. All apples.

Now look into your apple crate and see that it took about 5 or more tags just to harvest a deer. Not everyone got a deer all the time. If we did than I could see your point but we would not have a habitat problem. Waugh!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
As I recall, DEC would have expanded antler resriction to other WMU, but hunters were against it. Imagine that, considering hunters in making a decision.
Hay RW your recall is broken. The did not expand it because it would not help the deer. However if all the hunters wanted it they would have gone along. It is all spelled out in the link. Waugh!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I don't care if it changes breeding patterns, the rut or anything else. As long as it doesn't do anything bad to the overall heard health then from a sportsment perspective as a hunter I want a little bit of a challange to shoot something other than the first dumb yearling that stumbles by me. I have practiced AR for 20 years for this reason alone.
Well I do care, I care about the deer and the habitat.

It seems you did not need the new reg for 20 years so why force it upon those that like young venison.

Well you could always hold out for an old Doe. Seems we had plenty of them to choose from. Waugh!
 

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it doesn't have anything to do with trophy deer just healther.there are a few farms south of me that are no doe hunting, and there are MORE deer but noticeably smaller, and really a meat hunter should want to shoot the biggest deer for the most meat, right? otherwise it's just to make people feel more like a man
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I live and work not too far from the NY. border The people I know that hunt or live in NY.all have said they wish NY. would have a antler restriction like PA.
Looks like you know some from the less than 20%. Birds of a feather flock together comes to mind.


The plans were dropped following a public comment period that drew both strong opposition and support. DEC officials had said beforehand that that they wouldn't endorse the restrictions if more than 20 percent of the hunters in the areas were against it.
Just seems to me they could of raised the percentage a little higher than the 20 % against
And that was all spelled out. It was not needed and was not a scientifically supported management plan.

NY learned from the experiment that was put in place by Dr. Alt. The results are showing it is not supported by good science.

We have it and still a majority support it. So we cannot get rid of it. Besides who wants to lose his job doing the right thing again.

The 51% used to pass it in PA was a joke and a sample of slanted survey science. Sour grapes? OK. But grapes all the same. Waugh!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
it doesn't have anything to do with trophy deer just healther.there are a few farms south of me that are no doe hunting, and there are MORE deer but noticeably smaller, and really a meat hunter should want to shoot the biggest deer for the most meat, right? otherwise it's just to make people feel more like a man
Deer don't get healthier with age. They get larger only if the food is there to allow this to happen. HR helps the remaining deer have a chance to grow larger.

As a meat hunter I must point out it is not always about the quantity of the meat. The quality of the meat matters and is also driven by personal choice. I like the younger venison more than the old stuff I have to grind up and mix. I would settle for 100# of tender cuts vice 200# of hamburg and jerky.

Not that I don't like hamburg or jerky but when out to eat at a fancy eatin establishment I often avoid orderin jerky. Waugh!
 

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Jim,

I don't think they said it was bad science.
 
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