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so, rather than lose membership and stay with the tradition on which it was founded and risk competition from another organization the NMLRA gave in for the sake of dollars. kinda like the EPR's with the coolers, cell phones and other modern things out in sight and being used. sure would hate to offend anyone and lose their money! sad, really sad! another thing that tries to get swept under the rug, is the fact that we ARE NOT other parts of the country or another state. we are the ONLY state to offer a "flintlock only" season. again the Hxxx with tradition, I want what I want! again sad!!!!
 

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What is the purpose of this thread?

This has the potential to get out of hand, and it will get locked/removed if it does.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You're getting dangerously close to a removed thread.

What is your purpose here, CM?

I felt that there are many readers who may not understand how the inline/ traditional feud got started. The other thread didn't need to be clogged up with it.


I'll delete my response to black powder that I believed was appropriate....... and you of course can delete the thread too if you feel it needs to be deleted.
 

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CM, I do support their season 100%, I have no problem with it and hopefully after using an inline during that season it will spark some interest in moving up to a flintlock. I would gladly help and encourage anyone anytime along the way. but, we all know how things have a way of spilling over in this day and age, and there in lies the problem. a little at a time and before you know it a season that was begun as a tradition and a heritage opportunity gets stomped on. we see it every day and it only gets worse. its never enough.
 

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I felt that there are many readers who may not understand how the inline/ traditional feud got started. The other thread didn't need to be clogged up with it.


I'll delete my response to black powder that I believed was appropriate....... and you of course can delete the thread too if you feel it needs to be deleted.
Understood, and for now we're ok with the thread being here.

That can change depending on how things unfold. At the present time, I don't feel the thread needs to be removed.

For all--- this is a topic with a lot of potential to go south in a hurry. Please be respectful and post in a constructive way. If that can't be maintained, the thread will go bye-bye.
 

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The NMLRA has been faced with stagnant membership numbers and in an effort to lure new members has moved toward greater acceptance of inlines. Even having matches for them. Most in-line shooters are not interested in competition and have an unfortunate false sense of superiority over traditional muzzle loaders if they could be lured out to a match. In line pistols have had a place in NMLRA matches for decades. but very few rifle matches were open to in-lines. The NMLRA's move has upset many of the long time faithful.

Frankly, a few states have altered their seasons to exclude/discourage in-lines from their primitive weapons seasons. Requiring loose powder, side locks, open sights, etc.

Pennsylvania's Game Commission kept changing the rules to permit non-tradtional muzzleloaders from nearly the very first flint lock season. Plastic stocks, day glo sights, short barreled carbines. pistol grips, etc. They did a way with the round ball requirement a long time ago. They are in part to blame for the in-line fans failure to comprehend the concept of a primitive season. If I had my way, the first week of archery would be limited to traditional wooden bows and arrows. No fibre glass, carbon fibres or sights until the second week. Training wheel bows would not be permitted until the third week.
 

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Pennsylvania's Game Commission kept changing the rules to permit non-tradtional muzzleloaders from nearly the very first flint lock season. Plastic stocks, day glo sights, short barreled carbines. pistol grips, etc. They did a way with the round ball requirement a long time ago. They are in part to blame for the in-line fans failure to comprehend the concept of a primitive season. If I had my way, the first week of archery would be limited to traditional wooden bows and arrows. No fibre glass, carbon fibres or sights until the second week. Training wheel bows would not be permitted until the third week.
The reason I see for that is less to go against tradition and more to try and increase the participation with a lower cost entry. Let's face it, a decent traditional pa longrifle flintlock costs about $700 minimum compared to the $250 for a traditions PA pellet. If the person really enjoyed hunting with a flintlock then they will upgrade to a better one.

I see it in long range PRS shooting, the long time competitors are running $4500+ custom rifles with $2500+ scopes. To someone who has never shot long range but wants to try the sport those numbers are absurd. If that was all that was allowed then the sport would never grow. However these days you can pick up a cheap savage with a budget scope for under $1000 and be competitive enough to figure out if you like the sport, those that do move on to better rifles as funds permit.
 

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CM, I do support their season 100%, I have no problem with it and hopefully after using an inline during that season it will spark some interest in moving up to a flintlock. I would gladly help and encourage anyone anytime along the way. but, we all know how things have a way of spilling over in this day and age, and there in lies the problem. a little at a time and before you know it a season that was begun as a tradition and a heritage opportunity gets stomped on. we see it every day and it only gets worse. its never enough.
Exactly. Well said.
 

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Folks who buy in-lines are not interested in making their own gear, possible bag etc. They are not interested in heritage, weekend living history, or even competition. They have no interest in developing a skill with a cantankerous ignition system, They are interested in one thing only. As long as their interest is focused purely on killing a deer they will clamor incessantly for permission to pollute the late season with their pretend fake primitive weapons.
 

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Folks who buy in-lines are not interested in making their own gear, possible bag etc. They are not interested in heritage, weekend living history, or even competition. They have no interest in developing a skill with a cantankerous ignition system, They are interested in one thing only. As long as their interest is focused purely on killing a deer they will clamor incessantly for permission to pollute the late season with their pretend fake primitive weapons.
I agree with this 100%. Its so typical of today's culture, the quick fix is the goal rather than long term enjoyment.........
 

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It's generally been considered unacceptable at HPA to make insulting/sarcastic/disparaging remarks about legal hunting implements simply because you don't like them.

Some posts here have tiptoed quite close to the line and need to cool off a bit.

If it's legal, you may make a respectful case why it shouldn't be, but the name-calling/insults/snide terms/comments for types of flintlocks can stop now. Please and thank you.
 

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I agree with this 100%. Its so typical of today's culture, the quick fix is the goal rather than long term enjoyment.........

One can enjoy this sport longterm, shooting only inlines.
Because we enter most brick & mortar stores and can't find a single sidehammer behind the counter, that tells us what primarily interests ML shooters the most.


Not complicated at-all to figure out and not complicated to understand that various ML Associations are welcoming inliners into the clubs.


The percentage of inline sales in our country quadruples-that of percussion sidehammers and flintlocks ...put together. Sabot/bullets quadruple the sale of conicals.


No - not complicated to figure-out and understand at all.
 

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Folks who buy in-lines are not interested in making their own gear, possible bag etc. They are not interested in heritage, weekend living history, or even competition. They have no interest in developing a skill with a cantankerous ignition system, They are interested in one thing only. As long as their interest is focused purely on killing a deer they will clamor incessantly for permission to pollute the late season with their pretend fake primitive weapons.
Pretty broad brush you are painting with. I am as big a supporter to keep the flintlock season as much as anyone here. I also have several inlines I purchased strictly to hunt the early season and sometimes the rifle season with. I simply use the most efficient weapon im allowed in their respective seasons. I love the chance to kill a doe in the early season, and know I have a better chance with the inline. I also look forward to flintlock season and always save a tag so I can hunt it. I'd bet most Pa muzzleloader hunters fall into the same category as me.
 

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One can enjoy this sport longterm, shooting only inlines.
Because we enter most brick & mortar stores and can't find a single sidehammer behind the counter, that tells us what primarily interests ML shooters the most.


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I don't believe this at all. The reason is a financial one based on what sells. Surely a store isn't going to stock much of one item if they only sell a few a year, versus something that sells like hotcakes. That said, it in no way means that more muzzleloader shooters are interested in inlines. It just so happens they sell more of them that's all. Take also the consideration that aside from Pa, no other state in the country has a specific flintlock only deer season. If more states would enact such seasons, or even simply enact flintlock only areas to hunt in. I think then you'd see an influx of sales of flintlocks.

I do believe also inlines sell better than flintlocks because there is a stigma that flintlocks are harder to shoot and or more finicky than inlines. To some degree this is true, but anyone who has any experience with shooting a flintlock will attest, they're not that hard to get the hang of.

Now I've fired an inline before, it was at a boy scout event my sons and I attended. And yes it was fun. But, this was a scoped weapon that used 209 shotgun primers, used pellet powder and fired sabots. After I was finished shooting the rifle, although I liked it, I also likened it to shooting a modern rifle, to which I have many in my cabinet already. I left with no urge to buy an inline. I enjoy shooting and hunting with my flintlocks and I utilize them in all deer seasons where legal these days. You can keep your inlines.
 

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Folks who buy in-lines are not interested in making their own gear, possible bag etc. They are not interested in heritage, weekend living history, or even competition. They have no interest in developing a skill with a cantankerous ignition system, They are interested in one thing only. As long as their interest is focused purely on killing a deer they will clamor incessantly for permission to pollute the late season with their pretend fake primitive weapons.
Not me man...I bought a 415 fps crossbow for that time of year! I can zip through any deer i have a tag for at 60 -70 yards. Me hunting with a crossbow really has no affect on anyone who chooses to hunt with another weapon. Those traditional guys are always out pushing deer past me! I like them!
 

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In general, I can definitely subscribe to the notion that the majority of people who buy inlines are in it purely to bag a deer, regardless of what state they hunt. However, I also subscribe to the notion that, as others have stated, a significant number of people come into the flintlock world from inlines. For that matter, I am one of those people.

I came into hunting much later in life - in my mid-20's - and had no clue how to hunt or what I needed to do it. A friend who I met during my first tour in Nebraska got me going (a guy who is primarily a meat hunter, and uses any legal method of take to fill his freezer). He told me to go buy an inline and he would put me in a good spot to bag a deer during NE's muzzleloader season. I went to the store, bought a brand new T/C Omega, a 1x scope (no magnification allowed in NE at the time), Triple 7 powder, and 245 gr. PowerBelts. The next day, I zeroed the thing in. Lo and behold, I killed a deer with it on public land the very first time out. It may not have been traditional, but it turned me on to the notion that one well-placed shot was all that you need to do the job.

Before long, I wanted more of a challenge and bought a Lyman Great Plains flinter in .54 cal...then a Tip Curtis .36 cal Virginia rifle...then a TVM .50 cal Early Lancaster....then a TVM 20 GA smoothbore fowler. The sum of them has taken everything from groundhogs, to deer, to turkey, to bear and bobcat. Now I'm pondering a .54 cal Western Fur Trade rifle in a shorter barreled configuration for elk hunting. That's right: the new-found love of traditional muzzleloaders started with a geeky, newfangled, stainless steel, inline muzzleloader over a decade ago.

I still own that T/C Omega and used it successfully during the PA early antlerless season a couple of years back. I also used it during Ohio's somewhat strange "gun" season while I was stationed out there. Their season allows for shotguns, straight-walled rifle cartridges and muzzleloaders of any type. I used the inline, as it is extremely accurate with much better range than my smoothbore Benelli shotgun or my .45 Colt Winchester 1892.

Oh, and that Lyman Great Plains .54 cal? I sold it dirt cheap to a friend who previously only shot inlines and became interested in in traditional guns after seeing me have success with my other flinters. He is practicing with it in hopes of taking a deer with it this coming season. Seems he'll be another who came into flinters after shooting a scoped inline. They may not hold any sort of meaningful heritage, but with the loss of many of the oldtimers to teach traditional muzzleloading to new shooters, I kind of get why the organizations are having their hand forced by modern times.
 
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