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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hoping someone can help me understand for the sake of understanding and for future possible tweaks.
I recently purchased a Vengent 440 to be my 'lifetime' crossbow or at least many years crossbow. It came with the Rangemaster Pro scope.
Purchased at a shop and they put everything together. They went through all the teaching which was great with the accuslide and safe operation. We sighted in at 20 yards at the shop...on and very accurate. They suggested the range to fine tune 30 and 40 which I knew and to start by shooting 40 first.
Went to the range with sandbags and the first shot at 40 was appriximately 12 inches high.
The scope has fps up to 425 and the scope was at a 405 setting from the original sight in. The shop suggested advancing the fps forward to bring the point of impact down. I advanced it all the way to 425 and shots came down approx 3 inches. Shop then suggested any other adjustments be reached by turret click adjustments.
I clicked down 9 inches worth of clicks and this did bring the scope in line at 40 and subsequently at 30 which is in line on what Tenpoint says on their site would happen.

Since the scope only goes to 425, is it for lack if a better term underscoped for the Vengent speed as advertised 440? I know the arrow wont be 440 fast.
The scooe is not shimmed or anything or any way.

Am I out of adjustment for anything beyond 40 since the fps ring is maxed.

I would like to work on fine tuning this but just dont know where I 'sit' with the current situation.

Thanks for reading the long post and any input.
 

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Regardless of what the scope speed is set for, if your 20 yard dot is accurate, 30 dot accurate, and 40 accurate, then you don’t have any issues. In my experience, if my dots are accurate at 20 30 and 40, the 50 and 60 dots on the Rangemaster scope will also be accurate. This has been my experience.
 

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Not necessarily following what they did. If it was sighted in as I read, then it was not done properly.
With a speed dial you sight in at 20 to be dead. Making adjustment to the elevation turret as needed. You the shoot 30 or 40 yards with that yardage on the recticle. If it’s higher you increase the fps and if lower impact you lower the fps. You do not make adjustments on the elevation turret. If you can adjust impact down at 30/40 yards then you most likely would need a scope with a higher fps range. There have been some instance with the new accusled xbows had this issue.
As for the scope speed ring matching the actual fps, it won’t. It’ll be with 5-20 fps but never dead on usually. They only way to confirm real world speed is with a chrono.
As a general rule tenpoint over advertises they’re speed with the supplied bolts.
 

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You would typically start by setting your speed dial close to what speed your arrow is. This is only determined by using a chronograph. If you do not know what speed and your speed dial ring goes to 425 and bow is a 440, I would probably set it at 420. This is just a starting point to try to get the crosshairs in the scope to line up with your yardages.
Then shoot an arrow at 20 yards. If point of impact is not the same as point of aim, adjust so they are the same using the windage and elevation knobs.
Then shoot an arrow at 40 yards. Again, if POI is not same as POA, adjust using windage and elevation knobs.
Then shoot an arrow at 50 yards. This time, if POI and POA are different, use your speed dial ring to get them hitting same. If hitting high, increase FPS ring, if low, decrease FPS ring.
At this point, your reticles should line up with your 20, 30, 40, .... yardages.
If at this point you are still shooting high and have increased the FPS as high as you can, you will either need a scope with a higher speed rating or use a heavier arrow/tip combination to bring the speed of the bow into range that the scope you have can handle.
I guess you can shim it, but that is out of my experience and I personally would not go that route.

Best of luck,

Rob
 

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If it was sighted in at 20 using windage and elevation turret adjustments,, then you adjusted via the turret to get it on at 40, then your 20 yard sight in will be off. Shimming will not help for calibrating trajectory points on a speed scope. It is only useful for the initial sight in point if you did not have enough vertical adjustment to get it initially sighted in.

If you have a solid 20 yard sight in, and cannot get the scope turned up high enough to bring the impact points in line, then you either need a scope with more speed adjustment or heavier arrows. That should be on Tenpoint, not you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You would typically start by setting your speed dial close to what speed your arrow is. This is only determined by using a chronograph. If you do not know what speed and your speed dial ring goes to 425 and bow is a 440, I would probably set it at 420. This is just a starting point to try to get the crosshairs in the scope to line up with your yardages.
Then shoot an arrow at 20 yards. If point of impact is not the same as point of aim, adjust so they are the same using the windage and elevation knobs.
Then shoot an arrow at 40 yards. Again, if POI is not same as POA, adjust using windage and elevation knobs.
Then shoot an arrow at 50 yards. This time, if POI and POA are different, use your speed dial ring to get them hitting same. If hitting high, increase FPS ring, if low, decrease FPS ring.
At this point, your reticles should line up with your 20, 30, 40, .... yardages.
If at this point you are still shooting high and have increased the FPS as high as you can, you will either need a scope with a higher speed rating or use a heavier arrow/tip combination to bring the speed of the bow into range that the scope you have can handle.
I guess you can shim it, but that is out of my experience and I personally would not go that route.

Best of luck,

Rob
Not necessarily following what they did. If it was sighted in as I read, then it was not done properly.
With a speed dial you sight in at 20 to be dead. Making adjustment to the elevation turret as needed. You the shoot 30 or 40 yards with that yardage on the recticle. If it’s higher you increase the fps and if lower impact you lower the fps. You do not make adjustments on the elevation turret. If you can adjust impact down at 30/40 yards then you most likely would need a scope with a higher fps range. There have been some instance with the new accusled xbows had this issue.
As for the scope speed ring matching the actual fps, it won’t. It’ll be with 5-20 fps but never dead on usually. They only way to confirm real world speed is with a chrono.
As a general rule tenpoint over advertises they’re speed with the supplied bolts.
I do believe they set the fps to match what the bow was shooting. They do have a chronograph.
It was dead on at 20 on the fps setting at the shop. They said to go to the range and shoot at 40. At 40, I was very high...almost a foot high. They suggested I move the fps to faster which I did and maxed it out at 425. At that, it only brought it down about 4 inches. From there, I did 16 turret clicks and it brought it down the 8 inches needed. At 30 and 20 with no adjustments it was on.
I guesd my question is. Have i 'lost' any ability to shoot out further than 40 yards if my scope ring is maxed? Or all adjustments would be with the turrents now? Do turret adjustments max out?
If the Venegent is
Were that amount of turrent turns normal? I didnt have that much if adjustment with my Hawke and Warrior HL but that us a slower crossbow.
Left to right is spot on.

Im shooting EVO X and advertised at 410 fps. The scope only goes to 425.
Is this a little older scope and the tech has outpaced it?
 

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It does not make sense that it was originally sighted in dead on at 20, then you made 16 turret elevation clicks and the 20 yard sight in remained unchanged? With that said, if what you are saying is true that it is now dead on at 20, 30 and 40, then the rest 50, 60, etc... should also be good to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Dpms, I didnt do any turrent adjustments until after I moved the FPS ring up to 425. It was dead on at 20 at the shop. I shot it there after they did the initial setup on their end. That was at I believe 405 on the speed dial. I took to the range and that is where it was high. From there, I maxed out the FPS at 425 per their direction on the phone at the range and it only brought it down 4 inches. From there, I was out of FPS adjustment, so I adjusted down via turret clicks via their direction.

Sounds like from Tenpoints instuctions, it was done correctly, but I ran out of FPS adjustment and then did turret adjustment.

I'm just wondering if I got a 'hot' bow or somehow the scope could not have been properly mounted initially..causing me to run out of FPS adjustment.

Should I be concerned with how I arrived to where I am ?

Should I chronograph this to get an idea of how fast?

My gut is telling me that not everyone is maxing their FPS and doing a lot of turrent clicks to get where they need to be but this scope is placed on a ton of different models.

Everything is factory OEM...factory scope factory bolts etc.
 

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The actual versus the scope setting fps is not important. They'll never match so it's irrelevant.
You should only be making turret adjustments at 20 yards to zero and not at other yardages. If you adjust the turret at 40 then at 20 yards it will be off zero. You use the speed dial to adjust the 30 to whatever (not sure how many marks you have on the scope). All that does it is adjust the magnification which changes the visual reticle gaps.

Once you zero at 20 yards and adjust the speed dial to the correct setting the marks should be on for all the marks on your reticle.
If it shooting dead on at 20, 30, 40 it's set and your done. If it consistently higher at 30 and on you need a scope with more magnification, which equates to a higher fps on the dial.
Most likely in the woods you can't shoot past 40 yards so wouldn't worry out past that. Bolts like arrows will easily deflect on limbs so unless your in a field or wide open woods there's a lot of potential for deflection.
 

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The process I listed was taken from Hawke's speed scope sighting in instructions. Maybe Tenpoint's scope is different but I would think all speedscopes act pretty much the same.
There was not much adjustment that needed to be made at 40 and it did not change 20 yard sight in at all.
 

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Dpms, I didnt do any turrent adjustments until after I moved the FPS ring up to 425. It was dead on at 20 at the shop.
Moving the fps ring does not change the initial sight in point of 20 yards. You could move the fps ring 300 to 425 fps and that 20 yard sight in point will not change. If it was sighted in correctly at 20 yards using the windage and elevation turrets, then you made any further turret adjustments, your initial 20 yard sight in would no longer be accurate.

My gut is telling me that not everyone is maxing their FPS and doing a lot of turrent clicks to get where they need to be but this scope is placed on a ton of different models.
Again turret adjustment are only done for the 20 yard initial sight in on speed scopes. From there it is a matter of adjusting the speed scope to match the impact points of your arrow at the other ranges.

Bottom line if if your 20, 20, 40, 50, 60 etc are perfect right now, that is all that matters but I still don't understand how you got it to that point based on how you describe it. That should not be able to occur,
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well, I spoke to Tenpoint.
They said set the FPS at 410 and shoot at 20. Make any adjustments there with the turrets. Then shoot out at 50 and see where it is at.
Before I moved the FPS from 425 I shot 20 yards and it was on at 20. I then moved the FPS only to 410 and shot. It was 1 inch low.
Made adjustments with the turrets.
I will be at the outdoor range wednesday for the further distances.

I am shocked the 20 didnt change much.
Also ran it through the chronograph, it is shooting 414fps.
 

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Well, I spoke to Tenpoint.
They said set the FPS at 410 and shoot at 20. Make any adjustments there with the turrets. Then shoot out at 50 and see where it is at.
Before I moved the FPS from 425 I shot 20 yards and it was on at 20. I then moved the FPS only to 410 and shot. It was 1 inch low.
Made adjustments with the turrets.
I will be at the outdoor range wednesday for the further distances.

I am shocked the 20 didnt change much.
Also ran it through the chronograph, it is shooting 414fps.
It will be interesting to see how the 30, 40, 50, etc... now match the holdover points in your scope. You will probably have to adjust the speed ring some. Lets us know what you experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The interesting thing is that TenPoint couldnt tell me how many clicks are in a turret. I would think the ideal mounting is a scope mounted and your click setting is in the middle, so you have an even amount of clicks up or down to give you the most range.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well, the sighting in is done.
At 50, I was 3 inches low so I backed the FPS down to 405 and then 400 and I was on at 50.

However, at 40 , I was high..enough so that I maxed out the scope to 425 fps and brought it within 1.5 of center.
I brought it down via turret adjust.
At 30, I was 1 inch high and brought it down with a couple clicks.

I split the difference between 30 and 40 and the difference between the 2 is miniscule.

At 20 after making these turret clicks I was 1/2 low. I brought it back in at 20.

All of this was done on sandbags.

I am ok for where it is now. The critical distances are 20-30....40 and 50 only come into play for me in the late season wide open on a golf course.

I called Tenpoint and spoke to the pro shop. The shop lead has the same bow and scope and has the same issue. At 50 he is 2 inches high.

Basically, I felt he was admitting the Rangemaster Pro scope doesnt have enough FPS adjustment in it to handle the longer ranges.

He suggested upgrading to the Evo X Marksman for a rougly 60 charge when they get one in as a takeoff. That scope goes up to 500FPS.
Im not sure IF I want to do that and if so how I feel about the scope picture....crosshairs and dots.
The Marksman has just the dots and is cleaner but are not crosshairs.

Right now I will not be making adjustments if any until the extended season is over.

I just wish things could have been set easily and the FPS ring work out smoothly.
I am ok fine tuning but when the manual sats one thing and you experience another wiyh the same scope x2 its frustrating. Orig scope the electronics were fried upon arrival.
 

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I would buy a new scope. I use several hawke scopes and once I site it in and adjust speed ring it's within a 1/2" or less out to 50 and usually dead on.
Sounds like something is wrong or bad design on that scope to not be on from 20-50. Plus way too many steps to get it on target.
Also just remember just cause the leaves are gone doesn't mean the limbs aren't there. Also deer are a lot more spooked in late season. Point being 40+ yard shots are difficult to make and not have a deer move or limb deflect the bolt and cause a wounded deer. It's everyone choice but there's alot of misinformation that you can easily shot a deer 50+ yards with a crossbow
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I would buy a new scope. I use several hawke scopes and once I site it in and adjust speed ring it's within a 1/2" or less out to 50 and usually dead on.
Sounds like something is wrong or bad design on that scope to not be on from 20-50. Plus way too many steps to get it on target.
Also just remember just cause the leaves are gone doesn't mean the limbs aren't there. Also deer are a lot more spooked in late season. Point being 40+ yard shots are difficult to make and not have a deer move or limb deflect the bolt and cause a wounded deer. It's everyone choice but there's alot of misinformation that you can easily shot a deer 50+ yards with a crossbow
With what I paid for this package, I do not want to buy another scope on my dime.
I have a note in their system that I am looking to swap out the scope after the season around Feb or so....at minimum for the same one with them mounting etc. I am able to make a day of it from Cranberry Twp area. I have a Hawke XB 30 on my old crossbow and do like it. It is not too cluttered and has lighted crosshairs.
Any of the 40 and 50 yard shots I have will be from a woods edge directly onto a golf fairway and wide open and set up with a tripod. When it gets too cold, even the craziest golfers stay in.
 
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