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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Bill Winke after filming his shots at whitetails bucks and does said it's unrealistic to wait for a 15 or 20 yd broadside shot take the first good shot you are offered, and the number one reason we make bad shots on deer is string jumping and you can't tell which deer will jump the string an alert deer or a relaxed deer
 

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just start aiming under every deer you shoot at. if it doesnt duck it gets away unharmed, if it ducks, you get it. no more wounded deer.

seriously this happened to me years ago. i found several nice scrapes and found a nice place to hide 20 yards away (on the ground) a really nice 8 point shows up, i draw, it catches me drawing, it ducks and the arrow goes over its back. i wait until the wind is right and try it again. same place, same 8 point, catches me drawing (again) i figure OK...i aim low, let loose and that deer never moved, the arrow went right under it

馃ぃ馃ぃ
 

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Hunting from an elevated position all the time I always strive for bending at the waist and taking what is given to me. And getting the animal stopped and in a position that will allow me to utilize an exit spot as well at the angle of descent. Now, the aiming low part is never part of the equation ever. I am shooting for the exit hole every time, and also very aware of the body language of the deer. If they are spooky, I will try to get that animal on a quartered away, or broadside in high out low position, and playing the exit hole angle. This aiming low that I keep hearing about is a recipe for disaster, take what you are given and make a clean kill.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
just start aiming under every deer you shoot at. if it doesnt duck it gets away unharmed, if it ducks, you get it. no more wounded deer.

seriously this happened to me years ago. i found several nice scrapes and found a nice place to hide 20 yards away (on the ground) a really nice 8 point shows up, i draw, it catches me drawing, it ducks and the arrow goes over its back. i wait until the wind is right and try it again. same place, same 8 point, catches me drawing (again) i figure OK...i aim low, let loose and that deer never moved, the arrow went right under it

馃ぃ馃ぃ
Sometimes you just can't win
 

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Can't never tell which ones will duck and which ones won't. Alert deer are more prone to it. I've only had 1 deer do it that had no idea I was there. 30 yard shot. He was aggressively hammering a scrape. Stepped out and I sent it. He dang need hit the dirt.

Looking back, his ears were pinned back and he was posturing. I think there was another buck he could see or smell thar I didn't.


I'd agree. I won't force a shot or take a shot that isn't there. But if I have a shot I can make on a deer I wanna kill I'm sending it. Deer are unpredictable. Maybe you'll get a 18yd slam dunk. Maybe he'll get your wind or catch you moving. Maybe he'll just go a different way. They catch your movement or scent or hear you and odds go way up that it'll duck IMO.


Same reason I try to avoid stopping them. If I do stop them the pin is on them and I break the shot immediately.
 

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Some say deer can't get out of the way from fast crossbows. I had a relaxed doe completely duck under my arrow at 23 yards at 400fps. I had it on film and the replay of the shot clearly showed what happened. You just never know.

One thing I try not to do is stop a deer by making a noise. It usually isn't the first noise that spooks them, It is the second noise from the same spot.

Another point that I buy more into every year is that deer often react to the sound or sight of the arrow coming towards them and that is what also can react to. Many people only think it is the sound of the bow that causes deer to react. I think it can also be the flight of the arrow.
 

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Another point that I buy more into every year is that deer often react to the sound or sight of the arrow coming towards them and that is what also can react to. Many people only think it is the sound of the bow that causes deer to react. I think it can also be the flight of the arrow.
This part I will agree with.
 

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Dpms brought up a point I forgot.


This year was new bow year.


I also wanted to re-explore feathers. I shot them for a few months when I started...been shooting Blazers ever since.

I REALLY wanted to shoot 3" shield cut feathers. I just think they look awesome.

I ordered 3" parabolic and 3" shield cut feathers.

The shield cut sounded LOUD to my ears.


Something I've done for years now is setup my phone (or a camera) AT the target to see what my bow sounds like and what my arrow sounds like.


Different fletchings, configurations, broadeads etc sound differently.

I want my bow AND arrow to be as quiet as I could get it and still shoot well.

The camera at the target confirmed my ears.

Parabolic were dead quiet. Flight was amazing.


Funny..when I ordered the test feathers, I wanted a small amount cheap and as bright of color as possible so I could see what they do in flight. One of my packs I ordered pink because the seller didn't have a small pack of white.

My eyes pick up that pink SO well. I'm rocking 2 pinks and 1 white 3" parabolic feathers now.


An arrow that makes an awful hiss as its flying....I see that as a problem.


I'd agree the first noise typically doesn't turn a deer inside out. It usually catches their attention. If they hear or see something else from there is likely going to be a problem.


I've heard arrows make awful loud noises. And I've heard bows sound like 22s.
 

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About 15 years ago, I did some simple research into deer jumpng the string by watching commercially made videos of about 30 kills in slow motion. In all but one of them, the deer moved at least a little -- and that was at 8 yards with the deer actively browsing and making a lot of noise to conceal the sound of the shot. I wish I remembered more specifics like this, but I don't. I probably took notes as part of the process, and maybe someday I'll find them! From memory, I would say the average distance a deer would move was more like 6-8 inches, This was across all shooting distances in the kills studied. In the most dramatic string jump, the deer lunged forward and down, maybe moving more than 2 feet. After a while, I figured I'd seen enough to conclude that a deer at any distance is unlikely to be in the same spot when the arrow arrives as it was upon release. As for whether to shoot or wait for a deer to come closer, I try to analyze what I'm seeing and make my best guess as to whether they're going to continue coming or if they might be coming no closer. But if the deer's in range and offering an ethical shot, I'm probably taking it. That's why you establish an effective range and practice at all distances within it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Some say deer can't get out of the way from fast crossbows. I had a relaxed doe completely duck under my arrow at 23 yards at 400fps. I had it on film and the replay of the shot clearly showed what happened. You just never know.

One thing I try not to do is stop a deer by making a noise. It usually isn't the first noise that spooks them, It is the second noise from the same spot.

Another point that I buy more into every year is that deer often react to the sound or sight of the arrow coming towards them and that is what also can react to. Many people only think it is the sound of the bow that causes deer to react. I think it can also be the flight of the arrow.
You are 100% right their peripheral vision is second to none You may think they are not looking at you but they see unless looking away
 

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Growing up shooting at a large fold up paper deer target print tacked onto bale's of hay made you think I got this now. Out in the real world shooting at live animal's I learned the hard way. I missed enough nice bucks back then shooting over top of them. I couldn't tell if the buck was reacting to the sound of the bow. My eyes were focused on my arrow flight to the live target.
Why I asked myself. I would sit in my deer stand or ground repeating in my head aim at the heart to hit the lungs. Sometimes it didn't go like that. I still was aiming at the lungs as I did target shooting. IDK maybe it was confusing my brain. I did get it through my head after a few years later.
Archery hunting is not easy as it looks in your back yard shooting hundreds of arrows on a motionless target.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Dpms brought up a point I forgot.


This year was new bow year.


I also wanted to re-explore feathers. I shot them for a few months when I started...been shooting Blazers ever since.

I REALLY wanted to shoot 3" shield cut feathers. I just think they look awesome.

I ordered 3" parabolic and 3" shield cut feathers.

The shield cut sounded LOUD to my ears.


Something I've done for years now is setup my phone (or a camera) AT the target to see what my bow sounds like and what my arrow sounds like.


Different fletchings, configurations, broadeads etc sound differently.

I want my bow AND arrow to be as quiet as I could get it and still shoot well.

The camera at the target confirmed my ears.

Parabolic were dead quiet. Flight was amazing.


Funny..when I ordered the test feathers, I wanted a small amount cheap and as bright of color as possible so I could see what they do in flight. One of my packs I ordered pink because the seller didn't have a small pack of white.

My eyes pick up that pink SO well. I'm rocking 2 pinks and 1 white 3" parabolic feathers now.


An arrow that makes an awful hiss as its flying....I see that as a problem.


I'd agree the first noise typically doesn't turn a deer inside out. It usually catches their attention. If they hear or see something else from there is likely going to be a problem.


I've heard arrows make awful loud noises. And I've heard bows sound like 22s.
The first noise generally places them on high alert the second noise they're getting out of dodge but not always I had a 150 ten pt coming in and I tried to move to the other side of tree and broadhead scrapped the cherry tree I was in and he flew out of there I wanted a chip shot but got no shot, take the first good shot you get LESSON LEARNED
 

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practice shots from every angle. thats what 3D courses and targets are for and of course groundhogs. if you can hit them, you can smack a deer. i once shot a running groundhog at 20 yards using a recurve (instinctively) could i do it every time ? NO, but i sure acted like i could. :LOL:
 

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About 15 years ago, I did some simple research into deer jumpng the string by watching commercially made videos of about 30 kills in slow motion. In all but one of them, the deer moved at least a little --
Absolutely. I posted a video on here some time ago by a group of hunters with a YouTube channel, recapping a similar number of kill shots they had made, about 30, all in slow motion . Same as you posted above, nearly all of those deer moved to some degree as a reaction to the shot.

I also agree about the arrow or bolt making noise and that that may be as much or more of a factor than the bow sound. Not only the sound of the arrow or bolt as far as decibels, but the frequency of the sound may be a factor. From the recordings I have heard of arrows in flight, they make a very high pitched sound.
 

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I also agree about the arrow or bolt making noise and that that may be as much or more of a factor that the bow sound. Not only the sound of the arrow or bolt as far as decibels, but the frequency of the sound may be a factor. From the recordings I have heard of arrows in flight, they make a very high pitched sound.
Even my bareshaft recordings screech until about 35 yards or so. I have found very little difference between any vanes or feathers.
My arrows at 50-100yds are nearly silent at the target.
鈥 click鈥濃︹︹whoomp鈥 is about all you hear after a certain distance.
 

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You guys are making paranoid with all these recent threads . Knowing my luck I will end up shooting one on a quartering to shot that bounces off the humerus with my 430 grain arrow because it jumped the string . Never had that happen to me before but this year will probably be the year .
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Absolutely. I posted a video on here some time ago by a group of hunters with a YouTube channel, recapping a similar number of kill shots they had made, about 30, all in slow motion . Same as you posted above, nearly all of those deer moved to some degree as a reaction to the shot.

I also agree about the arrow or bolt making noise and that that may be as much or more of a factor than the bow sound. Not only the sound of the arrow or bolt as far as decibels, but the frequency of the sound may be a factor. From the recordings I have heard of arrows in flight, they make a very high pitched sound.
Well we can see the arrow going to them they are constantly looking for movement to stay alive so in some instances they see the arrow
 
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