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Local municipal workers have been sent for training. Anyone have the scoop?

This has been a controversial subject in Canada recently. Property owners there are on the verge of new property assessments to pay for storm water infrastructure.

For the moment it appears that those in Pa with water and sewer services will also be billed for storm water running off their properties. I heard that townships will be required to become involved...which means tax increases.
 

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It stops too short. I think there should be a sun tax also. Then maybe a wind tax.

Property owners are getting off too easy.
 

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I believe there is a good way to use stormwater management, but I also believe that the current way ain't it!

I have seen too much regulation for the sake of regulation. When firms design according to the current regulations, it is somewhat of a crapshoot. I had a project with 7 communications sites in rural, sometimes hilly and mountainous terrain, only see 4 of those sites accomplish what they set out to do without field modifications to the design.

Ripping everything down, (clearing and grubbing) for the sake of building up artifical runoff control, for a regulation is dumb.
 

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They want you to pay for storm water run off from your property and want to fine you for collecting rainwater to water your garden. Makes sense.
 

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Bates said:
It stops too short. I think there should be a sun tax also. Then maybe a wind tax.

Property owners are getting off too easy.
If Pennsylvania could tax landowners for the oxygen in the air, they'd do it.
 

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Danesdad said:
Bates said:
It stops too short. I think there should be a sun tax also. Then maybe a wind tax.

Property owners are getting off too easy.
If Pennsylvania could tax landowners for the oxygen in the air, they'd do it.
Does anyone recall when Ed Rendell was the mayor in Philly and he wanted to put in a "..temporary regional tax" that would he charged to people in the "region" (whatever that meant) for a "limited" time? Never happened. Limited and temporary for the region - my Aunt Fanny!
 

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Temporary tax.


I've got a bridge for sale if anybody is interested. No, really, I do.
 

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I have had several campuses of ours we have been charged for storm-water for about the past 7 years.
We needed to bring in engineers to submit a report that we have the ability to deal with rain and run-off.
With retention and detention basins, trees and green space we were able to prove we can control the first 2 inches of rain without dumping it into the sewer system where the water would be treated.

Small properties the savings are not worth the cost and it is something we need to resubmit every 4 years.

Its all about the cost of water treatment. Just telling them you use it to water your garden won't cut it.
 

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There are several PA House Bills being sponsored to allow Townships to set up stormwater districts. Some Townshps already have what are called MS4 NPDES Discharge Permits for stormwater. They must implement 6 programs to control stormwater and improve local water quality. Remember, new development over 1 acre is also required to get an NPDES Discharge Permit and implement Post Construction BMPs.
 

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jimsdad said:
Danesdad said:
Bates said:
It stops too short. I think there should be a sun tax also. Then maybe a wind tax.

Property owners are getting off too easy.
If Pennsylvania could tax landowners for the oxygen in the air, they'd do it.
Does anyone recall when Ed Rendell was the mayor in Philly and he wanted to put in a "..temporary regional tax" that would he charged to people in the "region" (whatever that meant) for a "limited" time? Never happened. Limited and temporary for the region - my Aunt Fanny!
I can only hope my life span is as long as these "temporary" taxes.
 

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Years ago, one of our celebrated County Commissioners wanted to put Meters on Rural Water Wells and charge the same rate that the City People paid.Went over like a lead balloon!!
 

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Ron pa said:
Years ago, one of our celebrated County Commissioners wanted to put Meters on Rural Water Wells and charge the same rate that the City People paid.Went over like a lead balloon!!
Yeah, THAT aint gonna happen.
 

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We had a nightmare on this subject in my neighborhood . They insisted on dumping 6000 gallons of water on your house to see if any went into the sewer. I made them get a Court Order from the local judge before they could enter my property . ( NOTE : I knew I didn't have any problems ) I had just replaced all of my lines 2 years prior . It was just the point of the whole matter .

99% of the runoff problem was from the local V.A. Hospital across the highway that was built 75 years ? ago , before the sewer authority was created . NOW ,, I'll ask you to read between the lines for the rest of this story .

When I called around ,, township , city and eventually the State PUC , I found that our Authority answers to NO ONE !!!! I'll repeat that again NO ONE !!!

To understand what I'm alluding to , the ONLY establishment they DID NOT mess with was the ( Federal VA Hospital ) ! !

BTW , I technically PASSED ( according to the contractor performing the tests ) the flood test , but I was issued FLUNKED PAPERS in the mail from the AUTHORITY !

Outcome ? After refusing to alter my system , I received a phone call from the project Manager . Who just so happened to be brought in from out of our area to head the whole project . Very nice man ! He came to personally deliver my PASSED Papers so they didn't get LOST by my local authority ! We tallked for an hour about who I ticked off and why . He then answered my question as to who answers to NO ONE except the Federal Government . I'll just leave it to your judgement who that may be ..........
 

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Currently trying to add to a gravel parking lot. The extension is in a flood plain. Have my E&S and storm water plan stamped. Now local township is hung up on if I can fill in flood plain. Any suggestions?
 

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Not sure why they would worry about a gravel parking lot sq footage, its not an impervious surface, water is still going to pass thru, just like dirt would.
If the township is balking its they cant decide how much to charge you for the permit
 

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I'm pretty sure Maryland <span style="text-decoration: line-through">subjects</span> residents pay a rain water tax already.
 

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Deer archer said:
Currently trying to add to a gravel parking lot. The extension is in a flood plain. Have my E&S and storm water plan stamped. Now local township is hung up on if I can fill in flood plain. Any suggestions?
Specify the stone you use will be "clean" stone (no fines to pack). I sugget #57. Your argument will be the porosity/permeability of the clean stone is MORE than the dirt underneath.
 

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Deer archer said:
Currently trying to add to a gravel parking lot. The extension is in a flood plain. Have my E&S and storm water plan stamped. Now local township is hung up on if I can fill in flood plain. Any suggestions?
The Flood Plain Management Act and corresponding DEP regulations prohibit construction of certain "obstructions", which can mean placement of fill, in floodways and floodplains without first obtaining a permit from the DEP. This is to prevent construction that may alter the course of the flood flows.

It may not be a bad idea to call the DEP office in Pittsburgh (assuming your project is in Washington Co). Ask to speak to a manager in the Bureau of Waterways and Wetlands.

One last thought is that the engineer who stamped your E&S plan should be experienced with these types of issues. Try reaching out to him and see if he has any advice to offer.
 

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Deer archer said:
Currently trying to add to a gravel parking lot. The extension is in a flood plain. Have my E&S and storm water plan stamped. Now local township is hung up on if I can fill in flood plain. Any suggestions?
as was already alluded to, I assume the stamp you're referring to is a professional engineers stamp. The typical process for any land development is to submit your plan to the township for review, if they have comments the plan gets revised to address those comments and then gets resubmitted to the township for review again. Unfortunately, You're at their mercy.
 

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Is anybody else reading this thread thinking, "My GOD, there too many regulations and too many bureaucrats with nothing to do?" Or is that just me?
 
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