[Trout Traveler]

Check out the "Over The Cap" website, the cap situation with Ben and others is not optimal.

Ben counts $22.5M and Pouncey $6.5M against the cap regardless. They get cut or retire, that’s their hit. If they play (assumimg no restructure) they count an ADDITIONAL $19M and $8M respectively.

Restructuring just pushes that $19M and $8M into future years. Fail to see any value in that.

Their problems are many and not going to get fixed in 2021. They are cornered with the cap.

When you restructure as much as the Steelers have, it eventually catches up. They will have to cut several players to get under the cap within the next several weeks. They will need to cut more than the amount to get under the cap because Watt is due for an extension and they won’t let him get away. They’re going to lose a bunch of free agents, which will result in getting several compensatory picks in the 2022 draft.

I really don’t know what will happen with Ben and Pouncey. We’ll find out in the next few weeks.

 

[Danesdad]

Ben is over the hill. Still a good QB but he's only wants to stay and play to win a championship and that's not going to happen. Time to move on. With the free agents and weak players you're not going to see another play off in Pgh for some time. Steelers are going down the path of the Pirates. Train the guys so they can leave and make more money somewhere else.

The Steelers are nothing like the Pirates. They are a committed, professional, and competitive team trying to compete under the constraints of a salary cap. The reason they are in a jam now is because they actually paid their guys when those guys were good. The Pirates are owned by a skinflint clown with no interest at all in competing.

 

[Trout Traveler]

I've read some articles by various writers and what they say the Steelers should do with their QB situation. They're hilarious because most are just a rehash of what they said last year. Here's what the various writers have advocated:

1.) Sign Cam Newton whether or not Ben retires.

First of all, I think Newton is old too and from what I watched this year, he doesn't throw well anymore. Why get another QB with suspect accuracy who's also over the hill?

2.) Sign Jamis Winston.

Winston thinks he can throw the ball through a mail slot. That's why he threw 30 INTs in his last year as a starter. He also fumbles a lot. He's a turnover machine.

3.) Trade for Deshaun Watson.

I don't think the Texans will trade him anyway, but the Steelers would have to give up too many draft picks to get him. Probably at least 2 firsts and a second, plus possibly another player. They don't have the cap room to do it.

4.) Trade for Sam Darnold.
I think Darnold is a bust. I could see signing him if he's cut but some team will trade too much for him because he's a former top ten pick.

5.) Draft Kyle Trask from Florida in the first round.
That makes some sense, though QBs drafted late in the first round often don't work out.

Recent late first round picks (since 2000):
Paxton Lynch
Tim Tebow
Brady Quinn
Johnny Manzel
Brandon Weeden
J P Losman
Patrick Ramsey
Jason Campbell
Teddy Bridgewater
Rex Grossman
Lamar Jackson

Of the players listed above, only Jackson possibly qualifies as a franchise QB.

6.) Draft a QB in the 2nd or later rounds.

They already spent a 3rd round pick on Rudolph. Almost all franchise QBs in the NFL were first round picks. The only franchise QBs in the NFL now not drafted in the first round are: Brees (2nd), Wilson (3rd), Prescott (4th), and Brady (6th). Brady is an anomaly.

I'm not in favor of drafting a QB in the first round this year, even if Ben retires unless one of the top prospects falls for some reason. The Steelers don't really have the draft capital to trade up this year. They will have a lot more next year, plus they will almost certainly be drafting higher in 2022 anyway.

 

[DethFrumAbuv]

Out of that QB list, Newton is physically shot, Winston is too erratic, Watson is turning diva (owners own, players play), Wentz wasn't mentioned and he IS a diva, Darnold may be a bust or product of Gase and the Jets. He could be (just a chance, its iffy) a Tannehill type that does better in a different situation.

Trubisky might be available, but no.

If Ben does want to play, it wont be for $19 more million anywhere. Most teams will have cap issues as no one planned for covid.

Does he want to play one more year at half that, paid mostly as up front money and Steelers kick some of it down the road? Would they want to do that?

Gonna be real interesting few months.

 

[Trout Traveler]

Out of that QB list, Newton is physically shot, Winston is too erratic, Watson is turning diva (owners own, players play), Wentz wasn't mentioned and he IS a diva, Darnold may be a bust or product of Gase and the Jets. He could be (just a chance, it’s iffy) a Tannehill type that does better in a different situation.

Trubisky might be available, but no.

If Ben does want to play, it won’t be for $19 more million anywhere. Most teams will have cap issues as no one planned for Covid.

Does he want to play one more year at half that, paid mostly as up front money and Steelers kick some of it down the road? Would they want to do that?

Gonna be real interesting few months.

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone suggest they trade for Wentz. I agree that he would be a bad fit in Pittsburgh and they don’t have the money anyway.

Ben is not going to agree to have his salary cut. I saw one article today that suggested the Steelers could extend him for a couple of years but make 2022 and 2023 voidable so that his signing bonus is spread out over those years. Ben’s salary is not $41 M/year. That's his cap charge. When they restructured his deals, they paid him up front as a signing bonus which can be prorated over the life of the deal. The Steelers have restructured Ben’s, Pouncey’s, Tuitt’s, Haden’s and other deals in the past. There was supposed to be a new TV deal and the cap was expected to rise significantly when many of the deals were negotiated. The Steelers cap manager Khan is considered one of the best at managing the cap but nobody foresaw the pandemic happening and the cap dropping precipitously.

If Bell and Brown were still on the team, their cap situation would almost certainly be worse.

 

[Danesdad]

They aren't going to recycle any other teams QBs. They will either get another year out of Ben or release him and roll with Rudolph. I cant see them drafting a QB in the first round either, as they have many needs elsewhere. Next year is gonna be tough.

 

[Trout Traveler]

They aren't going to recycle any other teams QBs. They will either get another year out of Ben or release him and roll with Rudolph. I can’t see them drafting a QB in the first round either, as they have many needs elsewhere. Next year is gonna be tough.

I agree. If Ben retires they will go with Rudolph. If they have a poor year they will get a higher draft pick. They should get several compensatory picks in the 2022 draft from losing free agents next year. That will give them draft capital to trade up if they want.

 

[DethFrumAbuv]

Coaching staff shakeup begins. Offensive coordinator, O-line, DB coach not being renewed. Supposedly Butler year-to-year, at 64 near retirement.

Their problem is they never suck badly enough to get a really high pick. Lets assume with the cap quandry they cant do much in free agency to cancel out their losses in FA.

Assume DuPree gets a big contract even with the knee. A 3rd round compensatory pick.

JuJu, not so sure anyone is going to throw open the bank. Once AB left, clearly he was different. Don't know if they'll fetch more than a 4th round compensatory. If that.

Hilton, Sutton, on down the list, anyone there strike you as getting a big FA deal?

A bad year with the covid and league revenue to be losing FAs but not getting same level of compensatory picks in other years since other teams are also strapped and the bigger deals fewer and far between.

They'll get some draft capital to make some moves, not sure if it will be enough to snag a "can't miss" QB prospect. Who are the "Wow" guys to come out in 2022 or even 2023?

Their woes are many, their options are few.

 

[Trout Traveler]

Steelers parted ways with Fichtner, Sarrett, the offensive line coach, and Bradley, the defensive backs coach.

There were rumors that the Lions were pursuing Colbert but they hired a GM. Colbert is a good GM, I hope he stays.

 

[Trout Traveler]

Hoping the Packers and Bills win today and the Chiefs and Saints win tomorrow!

 

[Trout Traveler]

Coaching staff shakeup begins. Offensive coordinator, O-line, DB coach not being renewed. Supposedly Butler year-to-year, at 64 near retirement.

Their problem is they never suck badly enough to get a really high pick. Let’s assume with the cap quandry they can’t do much in free agency to cancel out their losses in FA.

Assume DuPree gets a big contract even with the knee. A 3rd round compensatory pick.

JuJu, not so sure anyone is going to throw open the bank. Once AB left, clearly he was different. Don't know if they'll fetch more than a 4th round compensatory. If that.

Hilton, Sutton, on down the list, anyone there strike you as getting a big FA deal?

A bad year with the Covid and league revenue to be losing FAs but not getting same level of compensatory picks in other years since other teams are also strapped and the bigger deals fewer and far between.

They'll get some draft capital to make some moves, not sure if it will be enough to snag a "can't miss" QB prospect. Who are the "Wow" guys to come out in 2022 or even 2023?

Their woes are many, their options are few.

I don’t believe in can’t miss QB projects. The college game and pro game are still very different and lots of big time college QBs are busts in the NFL. If a QB can’t read defenses, call audibles, and throw into tight windows, they won’t succeed in the NFL. Ryan Leaf was considered a can’t miss prospect. Some scouts rated him higher than Peyton Manning.

The Steelers may well need to have a losing season to get an opportunity to draft a franchise QB.

I believe a team will give JuJu a big contract. There are teams that do have a lot of cap space. Unfortunately I think the Patriots are one of them.

I think they will get 3rd round comp picks for Dupree and JuJu. JuJu will yield a 4th rounder at worst.

Not sure about the rest of them. I think they will resign Sutton, Berry, and quite possibly Alualu and McCloud.

The Steelers will probably sign a couple of low level FAs for depth. Comp picks are based on lost players vs. signed players and how much each contributed in their first year with their new team. Their next QB won’t come from a comp pick, but sometimes valuable players come from comp picks.

 

[DethFrumAbuv]

To one of those points on QBs throwing to tight windows, I think Duck Hodges was able to earn an NFL paycheck was due to his ability to anticipate receivers coming open.

He does not have a big arm by any means, so even at Samford he had to have that anticipatory "spider sense" to make the completion.

I think that's why so many big-time QBs in college bust in the NFL. If you throw it when they are open, they aren't open when the ball arrives. NFL linebackers are as fast (or faster) than college DBs, and the NFL DBs are faster than college WRs.

The few Donta Smiths not withstanding.

In hindsight the Manning/Leaf debate is ludicrous. Manning's game knowledge (his dad was Archie, after all) was way ahead of Leaf's. Leaf has gone on to prove he's not the brightest bulb on the tree.

Big strong dudes who can chuck it in college are exposed in the pros when the game speeds up and its as much about the mind as the arm.

You're right on it Trout, "franchise" QB can be a real crapshoot.

 

[Trout Traveler]

To one of those points on QBs throwing to tight windows, I think Duck Hodges was able to earn an NFL paycheck was due to his ability to anticipate receivers coming open.

He does not have a big arm by any means, so even at Samford he had to have that anticipatory "spider sense" to make the completion.

I think that's why so many big-time QBs in college bust in the NFL. If you throw it when they are open, they aren't open when the ball arrives. NFL linebackers are as fast (or faster) than college DBs, and the NFL DBs are faster than college WRs.

The few Donta Smiths not withstanding.

In hindsight the Manning/Leaf debate is ludicrous. Manning's game knowledge (his dad was Archie, after all) was way ahead of Leaf's. Leaf has gone on to prove he's not the brightest bulb on the tree.

Big strong dudes who can chuck it in college are exposed in the pros when the game speeds up and its as much about the mind as the arm.

You're right on it Trout, "franchise" QB can be a real crapshoot.

You're absolutely right about the big armed QBs often being exposed in the NFL. The only position that has more first round busts than QB is WR.

Hodges did better than I figured he would but the Bills game last year showed he doesn’t have the arm to be a starter in the league. He made the Steelers practice squad this year because of the expanded practice squad due to Covid. Unless there’s an expanded practice squad again, I don’t think he’ll be in the league.

It's definitely true that many QBs in college throw late, no doubt because they can wait until receivers get open. Watch a college game sometime and see how wide open the receivers are a lot of the time. Kordell Stewart had a big arm but he habitually threw the ball late and was lousy at reading defenses. That's why he lost his job to Tommy Maddox, who had a much weaker arm. Those big open windows are rare in the NFL. A lot of throws take place before the receiver has even made his break.

Check out the following chart of first round picks (since 2000)
and how the various first round picks have fared in getting to and winning the Super Bowl:

Below is a list of first round QB picks since 2000. The ones highlighted in red are Super Bowl winners (as the starting QB, some got rings as backups).

A lot of busts on the above list.

Since 2000, half of the Super Bowl winners starting QB in that game were first round picks. 1 (Brees) was a 2nd rounder, 2(Wilson and Foles) were third rounders, Brady of course accounted for 6 SBs and was taken in the sixth round. Brad Johnson, was the QB of the Bucs when they won and he was originally taken in the 9th round, back when the draft was 12 rounds.

People often point to Brady being a 6th round pick and say that you can wait until the late rounds to draft a franchise QB, but besides Brady, can you name another QB taken that late who became a Super Bowl winning QB? Kurt Warner won a SB, appeared in another and was undrafted, but it's fair to say that Brady and Warner are outliers.

 

[DethFrumAbuv]

I had to go look up Dilfer, he was taken a lot higher than I thought. 6th in 1994.

In today's league, you'd have to say Dak Prescott was a find. I suppose they lust after QBs so much that they over-estimate the positives and downplay the negatives.

Kinda like gals with big "attributes". Those attributes hold all your attention and you kinda ignore that second head growing out of her neck. 😁

 

[Trout Traveler]

I had to go look up Dilfer, he was taken a lot higher than I thought. 6th in 1994.

In today's league, you'd have to say Dak Prescott was a find. I suppose they lust after QBs so much that they over-estimate the positives and downplay the negatives.

Kinda like gals with big "attributes". Those attributes hold all your attention and you kinda ignore that second head growing out of her neck. 😁

Yep, Prescott was a 4th round pick. I’m sure the Cowboys were hoping he’d be a backup, but he turned out to be much better than that. Same goes for Russell Wilson. The Seahawks paid a huge amount for a free agent QB before they drafted Wilson in the 3rd round, and Wilson beat him out in camp.

Even though he won a Super Bowl with the Ravens, Dilfer was bust for a 1st rounder. Back then, teams could win a SB with defense and a running game, which is what the Ravens did that year.

 

[Trout Traveler]

Ravens out!

 

[DethFrumAbuv]

Ravens out!

So was Lamar! 🤕

That whiplash shot to the back of the helmet is nasty. If you played ball back in school and ever had one, you'll know what I mean. When Jackson immediately grabbed his head I knew he was hearing those high-pitched tuning forks in his ears.

Don't wish injury on any player, Ravens or not. He's one slippery dude and you have to hold your breath every time he takes off.

Steve Smith just trashed the Ravens passing scheme on the NFL network post-game. Too basic. Said his 6-year-old could run it.

Let the debates begin in Ravensland this offseason! 😄

 

[Trout Traveler]

So was Lamar! 🤕

That whiplash shot to the back of the helmet is nasty. If you played ball back in school and ever had one, you'll know what I mean. When Jackson immediately grabbed his head I knew he was hearing those high-pitched tuning forks in his ears.

Don't wish injury on any player, Ravens or not. He's one slippery dude and you have to hold your breath every time he takes off.

Steve Smith just trashed the Ravens passing scheme on the NFL network post-game. Too basic. Said his 6-year-old could run it.

Let the debates begin in Ravensland this offseason! 😄

Of course you never want to see someone injured. When he grabbed both sides of his helmet I figured he had a concussion and was out for the game.

The Ravens have lost three years in a row to teams that have committed to stopping the run and daring them to pass. The Bills had a great defensive game plan and executed it very well.

Jackson stared down his receiver on the pick six.

If Jackson develops his outside passing game to his WRs, the Ravens will be really difficult to beat, but most of their passes go to the TEs and RBs.

 

[Trout Traveler]

Much closer than I’d hoped, but glad to see the Browns lose.

Can’t believe the 4th down call by Reid! THAT is the definition of not living in your fears!

 

[steelhead125]

Now we just need to see Brady and Brown lose tonight. Then I will be rooting for Buffalo to go all the way .