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I'm wondering if the commissioners are considering the banning of dogs for fall turkey hunting. All in the interest of "saving hens" of course you understand. :)
 

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I'm wondering if the commissioners are considering the banning of dogs for fall turkey hunting. All in the interest of "saving hens" of course you understand. :)
Though I don't think the elimination of dogs or rifles in the fall is a needed solution I do agree that the elimination of hunting with dogs would make more sense than the elimination of rifles. It would likely effect fewer hunters while saving more turkeys.

Dick Bodenhorn
 

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Discussion Starter #83
Maybe we could also get rid of dogs for all hunting, take away my use of beagles for rabbits, take away the use of bird dogs, take away predator dogs, just one more way to take more hunting opportunities from hunters. We sit back and let the predators kill most of the turkeys, then we look for ways for the hunters to take less. All this will do is let more for the predators. Too many anti gun and anti hunting ideas. I believe on a post you said something about man using club, and rocks, and maybe pointed sticks, come on do not give the anti hunters any ideas. I am glad you do not think elimination of rifles or dogs are needed, but I do not even like to hear about taking away any hunting with dogs.
 

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Though I don't think the elimination of dogs or rifles in the fall is a needed solution I do agree that the elimination of hunting with dogs would make more sense than the elimination of rifles. It would likely effect fewer hunters while saving more turkeys.

Dick Bodenhorn
Hey RSB:
I thought I'd "stir the pot". :)
 

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Discussion Starter #86
Soon you will not be stirring the pot with wild turkey in it, turkey hunting will be done because of the lack of birds and hunting restrictions. You will have to settle for chicken in the pot.
 

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I'm wondering if the commissioners are considering the banning of dogs for fall turkey hunting. All in the interest of "saving hens" of course you understand. :)
Excellent idea. I will definitely add that one to my communication.

For the record though, I don't want to see any segment of hunter eliminated. Shorten the season, eliminate the taking of hens in the spring, fine. But target specific groups of hunters, no.
 

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Maybe we could also get rid of dogs for all hunting, take away my use of beagles for rabbits, take away the use of bird dogs, take away predator dogs, just one more way to take more hunting opportunities from hunters. We sit back and let the predators kill most of the turkeys, then we look for ways for the hunters to take less. All this will do is let more for the predators. Too many anti gun and anti hunting ideas. I believe on a post you said something about man using club, and rocks, and maybe pointed sticks, come on do not give the anti hunters any ideas. I am glad you do not think elimination of rifles or dogs are needed, but I do not even like to hear about taking away any hunting with dogs.
You keep ranting, regardless of the original topic, about how predators are killing everything and hurting hunters and hunting. Yet you have NEVER posted one picture of where a predator, other than you, has killed anything.

If predators are doing all this killings you shouldn't have any problem posting some pictures as evidence of it. It is time to either post up some evidence or stop with your never ending nonsense about it.

Dick Bodenhorn
 

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If you go on the PGC webpage under the turkey section and look up their own data on survival rates of the transmitted hens from 2011 to 2013, they have some pie charts outlining the mortality reasons.
It breaks down like this:
Avian predation - 11%
Mammalian predation - 29%
Unknown predation - 8%

So of the mortality of the transmitted hens in the study, done by the PGC, the total mortality rate of hens due to predation was 48%. I don't know about everyone else, but just about half of the known mortalities being attributed to predation seems pretty significant to me, though for some reason I suspect I'll be told how wrong I am.

Do we really need to have pictures posted in order to re-enforce what the PGC data is already telling us?

And 36% of that predation took place while the hens were nesting, which supports even more my assertion that the taking of bearded hens needs to be stopped in order to protect them when they are needed the most and can contribute back to the population.
 

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.....but..but...but...the PA book says" bearded turkey "......which goes to shows the hypocrisy and the lack of priority the PA Game Commission ACTUALLY takes to shooting BEARDED HENS in the SPRING.....but Some BS claim about rifles in fall is easier to apply..but God forbid they change the PA spring turkey season to Spring Gobbler...male turkeys ONLY.....just some excuse for jackwagons that can't tell what a hens looks like...VS what a gobbler/jake looks like. They shouldn't be in the woods if they can't tell the difference. If someone here doesn't like my comment...too bad.

..and don't even get me going about Pa Game commission and fishers...and the lame season for fishers...
 

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If you go on the PGC webpage under the turkey section and look up their own data on survival rates of the transmitted hens from 2011 to 2013, they have some pie charts outlining the mortality reasons.
It breaks down like this:
Avian predation - 11%
Mammalian predation - 29%
Unknown predation - 8%

So of the mortality of the transmitted hens in the study, done by the PGC, the total mortality rate of hens due to predation was 48%. I don't know about everyone else, but just about half of the known mortalities being attributed to predation seems pretty significant to me, though for some reason I suspect I'll be told how wrong I am.

Do we really need to have pictures posted in order to re-enforce what the PGC data is already telling us?

And 36% of that predation took place while the hens were nesting, which supports even more my assertion that the taking of bearded hens needs to be stopped in order to protect them when they are needed the most and can contribute back to the population.
That doesn't mean that 48% of hens are being killed by predation.It means of the hens that do die,48% are killed by predators.
 

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Discussion Starter #93
If you go on the PGC webpage under the turkey section and look up their own data on survival rates of the transmitted hens from 2011 to 2013, they have some pie charts outlining the mortality reasons.
It breaks down like this:
Avian predation - 11%
Mammalian predation - 29%
Unknown predation - 8%

So of the mortality of the transmitted hens in the study, done by the PGC, the total mortality rate of hens due to predation was 48%. I don't know about everyone else, but just about half of the known mortalities being attributed to predation seems pretty significant to me, though for some reason I suspect I'll be told how wrong I am.

Do we really need to have pictures posted in order to re-enforce what the PGC data is already telling us?

And 36% of that predation took place while the hens were nesting, which supports even more my assertion that the taking of bearded hens needs to be stopped in order to protect them when they are needed the most and can contribute back to the population.
You keep ranting, regardless of the original topic, about how predators are killing everything and hurting hunters and hunting. Yet you have NEVER posted one picture of where a predator, other than you, has killed anything.

If predators are doing all this killings you shouldn't have any problem posting some pictures as evidence of it. It is time to either post up some evidence or stop with your never ending nonsense about it.

Dick Bodenhorn
When I was young and not educated I relied on pictures for information. Later I learned to read, gained common sense, and got out in nature enough to know that predators kill prey, including turkey. As for post up evidence, or stop with your never ending nonsense, I guess you are trying to take away free speech on this site. Feels to me like trying to bully some one to make them support ones ideas. This is America, look up your own pictures, and what you call nonsense, is actually based on facts of predation. And if I do not post your pictures, what is the punishment. Control all game based on numbers, not political red tape, and anti hunting emotions.
 

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That doesn't mean that 48% of hens are being killed by predation.It means of the hens that do die,48% are killed by predators.
I hope to God that I am smart enough to understand that.

But it shows that 48% of the transmitted hens in this study tat died, did so of predation. And the study was done by the PGC. And that is a baseline of info to work from. I cannot even count how many times on this website that info from a study is cited and taken as gospel form that point forward. 48% predation of the hens that died sure seems pretty signifcant to me.
Proof of predation was asked for......and I provided it. The PGC's own info.
 

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Discussion Starter #96
I hope to God that I am smart enough to understand that.

But it shows that 48% of the transmitted hens in this study tat died, did so of predation. And the study was done by the PGC. And that is a baseline of info to work from. I cannot even count how many times on this website that info from a study is cited and taken as gospel form that point forward. 48% predation of the hens that died sure seems pretty signifcant to me.
Proof of predation was asked for......and I provided it. The PGC's own info.
Thanks for that information, I do not believe that that will change the mind of some. Facts just are not good enough. I would like to see a study done on poult mortality. I believe that Lost Again on this site had a good idea of a study like that.
 

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I hope to God that I am smart enough to understand that.

But it shows that 48% of the transmitted hens in this study tat died, did so of predation. And the study was done by the PGC. And that is a baseline of info to work from. I cannot even count how many times on this website that info from a study is cited and taken as gospel form that point forward. 48% predation of the hens that died sure seems pretty signifcant to me.
Proof of predation was asked for......and I provided it. The PGC's own info.
OK,but how many died?Lets say they had 100 hens with transmittersd and 10 died.That would mean about 5% died from predation.Without knowing the exact numbers of hens with transmitters and how many died,the 48% means nothing.

It's similar to the fawn study.About half the fawns die and about 50% of the mortality came from predation which was split pretty evenly between bears and coyotes.That means about 12% of the fawns were killed by coyotes but I constantly heard people claiming that the study stated that 50% of the fawns were killed by coyotes.
 

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You'll have to look up for yourself how many died. But if it was 48% don't come on and try to sell that almost half of deaths due to some type of predation is insignificant. And I'd bet if the data showed what you wanted it to, you be far more inclined to say that it is good info. Seen this game way too many times. If the data is meaningless, then why did the PGC bother to post it on their website?
The only way it can be totally foolproof is to document every single turkey death in the entire state every year. And we both know that isn't going to happen.
 

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It's similar to the fawn study.About half the fawns die and about 50% of the mortality came from predation which was split pretty evenly between bears and coyotes.That means about 12% of the fawns were killed by coyotes but I constantly heard people claiming that the study stated that 50% of the fawns were killed by coyotes.
Just because others mis-stated fawn mortality study info, does not mean that I am doing it here. Go back and actually read my post. I VERY CLEARLY stated "about half of the known mortality." Known mortality.
I have zero idea of how anyone can misconstrue that as me saying it's half of the overall hen population died from predation.
 
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