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Discussion Starter #1
I am looking at two side by sides in 28 gauge, 28" barrels, box lock...the LCS Ugartechea grade I and the CZ Ringneck Mini...

The only major differences are:

CZ - single trigger (selector), screw in chokes (C-F), pistol grip. $1214, 5.9lbs

Ugartechea - double triggers, fixed chokes (IC, M only), English straight grip. $1995, 5.5lbs.

Personally I've never owned a SxS....I've heard the pistol grip is easier to shoot. I also only shoot steel shot, which patterns tighter than lead so an IC choke is equivalent to an Improved Modified choke. Double triggers are better than a selector.

Does anyone have any experience using them? What do you recommend?
 

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I have an LCS Ugartechea in 28...very nice gun straight stock double trigger.

I have a 410 double with single select trigger pistol grip stock ...I prefer the double trigger...

and a sxs 20 double trigger pistol grip stock as well as a 12 ga sxs double trigger, pistol grip stock

I haven't noticed any appreciable difference between straight stock or pistol grip stock... and found I miss game no matter the choke... in short..it is me that chokes


My suggestion is get the one that fits you best. Have fun shopping and good luck with your decision.
 

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You expect to shoot steel in the 28?...5/8 ounce?....at ruffed grouse?...ethically?
Odd....tho I have used steel in a 20 simply to use it...worked fine on grouse and woodcock but a poor choice.

No, IC with steel does not equal an IM constriction as a given.

A pistol grip makes no difference in shootability unless it feeds into hand size issues.
DTs are of little value in ruffed grouse hunting, other than as concerns esthetics and tradition.

I personally would recomend neither scattergun.
I would recomend a 16 gauge of several makes or, if you have never hunted grouse before, a 12 is impossible to best.
In a SXS...a used SKB or Miroku would both be near the list's top at the equivalent price range.
Of the two mentioned....the CZ does have it's admirers.
Both are way too light in weight....but message board wisdom implys that weight is important.
Other than at the extremes, it isn't.
But, good luck in the search...just do not start the search with too narrow a range of options.
It's only early February.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
so the double trigger is the only thing that you would say is a hands down winner...

Do you see any difference in shooting 28's to 20's?
 

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besides recoil and price of shells...no.

the twenty guage has been with me 50 years this past Christmas...It was my first shotgun... So I've been very used to double triggers and pistol grip shotguns. Just what I've gotten used to...nothing more than that.

To give you some idea. I have a couple of pump shotguns and I have to really concentrate to pump the dang things after I shoot
 

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Between those two the UGEE has it all. There is no practical reason to use steel shot for grouse, that makes no sense. Double trigger is best IMO, just takes a few days to get used to. Side by side is a different world, not everyone can shoot them well. My personal advice if you want the best side by side for grouse and you have 2 grand to spend, hit Gunbroker for a Fox Sterlingworth 20 gauge. Then you would have not only the best American S/S ever made, you would also have an investment you can sell for twice as much when you get old, LOL!
 

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I have a LCS grade 1 Ugartechea 16 ga. bought it December 2011, I really like it. The weight of it is 6lb. 3oz. I had the them open up the chokes to skeet1 and improved cylinder for grouse and pheasants.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Aren't those old american guns heavy? I really don't have the money to make a mistake buy and I honestly won't shoot anything but steel shot (non-toxic). I know shooting steel is another forum blog in itself. Does anyone have another opinion on english versus pistol grip stocks?
 

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If the drop is not right you will never hit a grouse with any shotgun, it must fit you!
I bought an Ithica model 500 in the late seventies, I have killed a box car full of game with it.Fits like a glove.
 

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Oh my you are a Naive one ! To answer your question, no, the Fox I recommended weighs a whopping 5 lbs. 11 ounces ! The Fox, LC Smith, and Parker were as good as birdguns ever got on this side of the Atlantic. Thats all moot if you insist on steel shot, you can't shoot it in those old guns. If you are down to those two, buy the Ugar, its very high quality. The grip makes no difference to a good scattergun shot, he will shoot both well. Finally, beware of those old codgers that promote Parkers over Fox. Aside from their obvious dilusions, they are known to trespass, drink cheap scotch, and entertain ladies of distain. A true gentleman will be shooting a Fox, LOL!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
You said the grip doesn't make a difference. A friend of mine swears he can't hit anything with an english straight stock. Most american sxs have pistol grips...
 

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An accomplished wingshooter is an instinctive shot with a high degree of hand eye coordination. A shooter of that degree can shoot any gun well, it just takes a few shots to see where the gun hits. An English stock handles faster, thats what its designed for. Don't get hung up on the grip design, its not an issue for a good shooter. Wingshooting, or any other shooting discipline, is a mental game more than anything. More than half of the guys who hunt with and shoot scatterguns use a gun that doesn't fit them correctly, thats why they never get better. If you really want to get serious about it and learn the dynamics of gun fit, Google Woodcock Hill. Make an appointment and get measured and fitted correctly, you don't have to buy a gun from them, but you will pay for the fitting. Its money well spent if you really want to be a shotgun sports aficianado !
 

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The straight grip was designed for two purposes. The main one was weight reduction and a balance stab; the second was an imagined easier sliding of the hand to the back trigger. A third would likely be esthetics.
No one needs to slide a hand to the back trigger and esthetics is personal.
A straight grip can cock the wrist at an angle that is a bit uncomfortable if you are not used to it. Supposedly it forces the stock a bit more firmly into the cheek...often a good thing.
Anyone can shoot either design, if they want to.
I had DTs put into two straight-gripped O/Us soley for the look...a 12 and a 28.
Worked fine but I prefer a PG and a Sweet 16....go figger.

I was fitted up in Traverse City.
My fitted stock length was 15 7/8...fine for targets and worked in the woods as long as the proper mount was employed but late in the day or week in heavy weather and cover, "proper" is not always to be found...now, the standard 14 1/4" of the Auto 5 works swell....fit is often in the mind and most often is....for gamebirds....unless one is at some extreme of some measure.
Save your money and shoot low gun skeet for learning, familiarization with the scattergun and success while concentrating on focus(eyes are it), wood to wood and follow-thru....most importantly, love any scattergun you shoot.

Many American SXS come unaltered with a large amount of stock drop....the dimensions are not often relative to today's factory offerings.
Making an older gun work is easily doable but can mean either $$s, luck or simply adjusting to what the gun offers.
If you go the old sxs route...barrels and lock up are the main things to make sure are according to Hoyle.

You would do well to also consider some sxs Sauers and the Husqvarnas....very solid guns at reasonable prices with modern particulars can be found.
They may not be steel friendly and they should not be.
Non-tox of an old double friendly nature is available....is expensive and some brands have a reputation for worthless, comparably.
 

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I have a 20ga cz bobwhite.It has double trigger and a strait stock.I was never a fan of sxs's before I got this gun but it's fast turned into my favorite shotgun of all time.
 

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I have a couple fox sterling worth 12's , I always liked them, better than my savage 311, or my ranger 12.
 
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