The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,964 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Mrs. and I were on a short vacation to the Lancaster area over the past three days, and I stopped in to Lancaster Archery Supply. I'm still on a quest to identify my next crossbow, and the guys there were very helpful. Even though I decided not to decide for the time being, I was able to gather a lot of good information and they actually talked me out of one of my top contenders due to durability concerns and steered me in another direction. Great folks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,964 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Bradford,

I have a very specific set of parameters I'm looking for, so this may not be pertinent to you, but here goes...

I'm currently shooting a Mission MXB-360. It has served me well and I've shot a fair number of deer with it. It shoots at 352 fps, which is fine with me. I like the scope and I'm fine with a rope cocking device. I like simplicity. My only beefs with it are, the front end design limits me to expandable broadheads. The manufacturer limits fixed blade heads to a 1-1/16" cutting diameter. I tried Black Out Toxic heads with that cutting diameter and had a clearance problem. So, I shoot 2" 100 grain, Rage two blade Crossbow X expandable heads and they've done just fine. Just not durable. If I had my druthers, I'd rather shoot a fixed blade head. Mission has solved that front end clearance issue on it's newer models.

I'd like the ability to de-cock at the end of the hunt without having a discharge an arrow. As it is now, I throw my Black Block target in the bed of the truck. No big deal, but just one more piece of gear to lug along.

I'm left handed, so being ambidextrous is important to me.

I hunt in a suburban deer management program where failure is not an option, and I keep my shots short and as low risk as possible. So, I don't need a lot of speed. If I were to pick up a little that would be O.K. But I'd rather shoot quieter than faster.

I strictly tree stand hunt (another requirement of the management program), so compactness is desirable.

I'm also not wanting to break the bank.

So I was looking at a Ten Point Turbo S1, a Ravin R10, a Ravin R5X and a Mission Sub-1 XR.

They steered me away from the Sub-1 XR and pointed me towards the Sub-1. They were a little vague on the reasoning, but indicated that with the extra speed, it comes with some other durability and maintenance issues. Even with the Sub-1, their thought was that it was a bit front heavy.

They steered me toward a Ten-point Havoc RS400, reasons being: the reverse draw design allows it to be much shorter and better balanced. Holding it, I agreed that was the case. For me though, the width was wider than I liked. The short axle dimensions don't mean a lot, if you have large cams. It was more money than I wanted to spend too. The things I like about the Ten Points models that are able to be de-cocked with a crank mechanism, is that they have an internal mechanism that allows you to stop the de-cocking process at any point and it locks in that place instead of free-wheeling. The problem for me is, the crank mechanism is only right handed. Maybe not a big deal. In addition, the factory safety is also right handed and an additional part needs to be added to make it lefty friendly. So, the verdict is still out.

As for the Ravins I mentioned, they had no R10's in stock, since its an older design and, no R5X's in stock yet, since it's a new product. The plusses for the Ravins are, the safety and crank are ambidextrous, very nice narrow design. The minus is that they do not have an internal mechanism in the crank that prevents the crank from free-wheeling. Yes there is a button that you push when you de-cock and you can release that button and it locks. But if your hand were to slip off the crank handle, you'd have to have split second reflexes. Ideally, this whole thing shouldn't be a problem, but thinking about doing this at the end of the day, in the dark, cold hands, etc. I don't know. The cocking device on the R10 is not silent. The cocking device on the R5X is silent. In the end, I was not able to do a side by side comparison.

In the end, I'm still on the fence. Despite the minuses with my current MXB-360,I may just keep shooting it. It's at the shop getting new strings and limbs. I'll pick it tomorrow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Bradford,

I have a very specific set of parameters I'm looking for, so this may not be pertinent to you, but here goes...

I'm currently shooting a Mission MXB-360. It has served me well and I've shot a fair number of deer with it. It shoots at 352 fps, which is fine with me. I like the scope and I'm fine with a rope cocking device. I like simplicity. My only beefs with it are, the front end design limits me to expandable broadheads. The manufacturer limits fixed blade heads to a 1-1/16" cutting diameter. I tried Black Out Toxic heads with that cutting diameter and had a clearance problem. So, I shoot 2" 100 grain, Rage two blade Crossbow X expandable heads and they've done just fine. Just not durable. If I had my druthers, I'd rather shoot a fixed blade head. Mission has solved that front end clearance issue on it's newer models.

I'd like the ability to de-cock at the end of the hunt without having a discharge an arrow. As it is now, I throw my Black Block target in the bed of the truck. No big deal, but just one more piece of gear to lug along.

I'm left handed, so being ambidextrous is important to me.

I hunt in a suburban deer management program where failure is not an option, and I keep my shots short and as low risk as possible. So, I don't need a lot of speed. If I were to pick up a little that would be O.K. But I'd rather shoot quieter than faster.

I strictly tree stand hunt (another requirement of the management program), so compactness is desirable.

I'm also not wanting to break the bank.

So I was looking at a Ten Point Turbo S1, a Ravin R10, a Ravin R5X and a Mission Sub-1 XR.

They steered me away from the Sub-1 XR and pointed me towards the Sub-1. They were a little vague on the reasoning, but indicated that with the extra speed, it comes with some other durability and maintenance issues. Even with the Sub-1, their thought was that it was a bit front heavy.

They steered me toward a Ten-point Havoc RS400, reasons being: the reverse draw design allows it to be much shorter and better balanced. Holding it, I agreed that was the case. For me though, the width was wider than I liked. The short axle dimensions don't mean a lot, if you have large cams. It was more money than I wanted to spend too. The things I like about the Ten Points models that are able to be de-cocked with a crank mechanism, is that they have an internal mechanism that allows you to stop the de-cocking process at any point and it locks in that place instead of free-wheeling. The problem for me is, the crank mechanism is only right handed. Maybe not a big deal. In addition, the factory safety is also right handed and an additional part needs to be added to make it lefty friendly. So, the verdict is still out.

As for the Ravins I mentioned, they had no R10's in stock, since its an older design and, no R5X's in stock yet, since it's a new product. The plusses for the Ravins are, the safety and crank are ambidextrous, very nice narrow design. The minus is that they do not have an internal mechanism in the crank that prevents the crank from free-wheeling. Yes there is a button that you push when you de-cock and you can release that button and it locks. But if your hand were to slip off the crank handle, you'd have to have split second reflexes. Ideally, this whole thing shouldn't be a problem, but thinking about doing this at the end of the day, in the dark, cold hands, etc. I don't know. The cocking device on the R10 is not silent. The cocking device on the R5X is silent. In the end, I was not able to do a side by side comparison.

In the end, I'm still on the fence. Despite the minuses with my current MXB-360,I may just keep shooting it. It's at the shop getting new strings and limbs. I'll pick it tomorrow.
My brother in law purchased the Ravin R10, it is a sweet great shooting bow, I’m leaning to getting one myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,964 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So, when I picked up my Mission from my shop (Bucks and Bows in Gibsonia), I kicked this around with them. My friend there, who I've known since he was a teenager in high school, and whom I mentored for a while, told me that he recommends to those who buy Ravins to not de-cock them and shoot a bolt instead. He also said that he tries to steer friends and family away from Ravins. He's that concerned about the safety of their de-cocking system.

We kicked around some Ten-Points (the Turbo S1 and the Siege RS410.) I'm still considering a Mission Sub-1, as the Missions are reported to the quietest crossbows on the market. I may wait until the year end and try to get a sale on a 2022 model. TBrom also chimed in that he didn't understand why anyone would steer me away from a Mission Sub-1XR. I'm thinking about reconsidering whether or not to consider a Ravin. Both Ravin and Ten Point both offer 5 year warranties on their limbs and Mission has a lifetime limb warranty, at least as I understand it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
880 Posts
Can you elaborate on these issues?
Issues with accuslide making noise and not latching. If that fails not a good situation.
As for the Mission XR issue is the cables getting eaten which happens on a lot of the higher speed and/or narrow limb xbows. I bought a m370 last year and cables are horrible after less than 50 shots. I waxed ever 5 shots. They should have served where cables crossed so IMO design flaw. My Scorpyd string set is 3+ years and look brand new minus the serving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,429 Posts
As far as your ambidextrous needs, it is possible with the Ten point to reverse the bow so top is now down and use left hand to decock altho in reverse. Or would the fact the sled is now upside down would that not be good? I tried it with my Viper and seems plausible. Doesn’t help with safety needing to be lefty
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,964 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
As far as your ambidextrous needs, it is possible with the Ten point to reverse the bow so top is now down and use left hand to decock altho in reverse. Or would the fact the sled is now upside down would that not be good? I tried it with my Viper and seems plausible. Doesn’t help with safety needing to be lefty
I think I can work around the crank being right handed with the clutch mechanism that locks it when you stop cranking. The safeties just need a part added to convert to left handed. Honestly, I'm able to rope cock my MXB-360 and I like the simplicity of rope cocking. That's one of the reasons I was thinking hard about the Sub-1, which can still be rope cocked. That being said, I'm getting older and some day I may wish I had a crank mechanism. I'll take that issue as it comes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,429 Posts
I think I can work around the crank being right handed with the clutch mechanism that locks it when you stop cranking. The safeties just need a part added to convert to left handed. Honestly, I'm able to rope cock my MXB-360 and I like the simplicity of rope cocking. That's one of the reasons I was thinking hard about the Sub-1, which can still be rope cocked. That being said, I'm getting older and some day I may wish I had a crank mechanism. I'll take that issue as it comes.
I can still rope cock my 14 yr old Parker but its age and mine are getting up there. Since this will probably be my last xbow I got the Ten point with crank for that reason. Its a bit more involved than just cranking, have to crank back, push a button then backwind 2 1/2 turns. Similar procedure to decock but sled needs to be on an angle down for gravity drop. Takes a bit getting used to. Over all its lights out accuracy and fairly quite shooting and silent cranking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,964 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I can still rope cock my 14 yr old Parker but its age and mine are getting up there. Since this will probably be my last xbow I got the Ten point with crank for that reason. Its a bit more involved than just cranking, have to crank back, push a button then backwind 2 1/2 turns. Similar procedure to decock but sled needs to be on an angle down for gravity drop. Takes a bit getting used to. Over all its lights out accuracy and fairly quite shooting and silent cranking.
Thank you for your input, and to all of the others who chimed in. I appreciate all of you folks!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,964 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I've mulled this around a good bit, and may sit tight with my current set-up. If I do purchase a new bow, I'm pretty sure it will be a Mission Sub-1 pro package. It really checks all my boxes. They fixed the front end clearance issue. I can rope cock and de-cock it. (I can add a crank mechanism later if I want.) It's ambidextrous. The later versions shoot at 385 fps with a 350 grain bolt, and a little slower with a 400 grain bolt. I'm not chasing speed. It's one of the quietest crossbow out there, and it should have better string and cable life than the Sub-1 XR. These are tanks in terms of reliability. The only downsides for me are the weight and cost. The only other contender for me right now is a Ravin R5, and by the time I purchase the bow kit and have to purchase a case separately, it will cost more than the Sub-1. And I still have concerns about the safety of the Ravin's de-cocking set up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,238 Posts
I despise cranks. Hate everything about them, but this seems to be the direction the crossbow manufacturers are going with super heavy and narrow limbs. I do like the Mission series as a rope cocker is still an option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,964 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Gene, as usual, I appreciate your thoughts and patience with me waffling back and forth on my thoughts. So, yeah I'm right there with you on the cracks vs. rope cockers. I got my MXB-360 back from the shop after a limb and string replacement and was shooting yesterday to make sure my point of impact was still ok. I can still cock it with ease, so no need for a crank from a physical standpoint for me at least now. But I'm 62 and I tend to keep my archery equipment for 8 to 10 years, so will I still be able to do that when I'm 70+, who knows. The RSD system would still be an option. Can that be purchased as an add-on later?

The thing that's frustrating for me is that my shop has stopped keeping Missions in stock and I've not been able to cock, shoot or de-cock either the Sub-1 or the XR. My 360 has a draw weight of 160 pounds, and with the mechanical advantage of the cocking rope I need to pull 40 pounds on each handle. I understand that the Sub-1 and the XR both have 80% let offs, but they draw at 200 and 250 pounds respectively. So with those, I need to pull 50 pounds and 62.5 pounds on each handle before the cams let off. I still have no feel for their respective noise levels, and the triggers. The accuracy I'm not worried about in the least. Whatever bow I buy will be more accurate than I am.

My only hesitation with the Sub 1, is that my current bolts, with 100 grain broad heads weigh 416 grains and I'm not convinced I would want to go down to a 350 grain bolt. If anything, I'd probably want to go heavier. I know I've said I'm not chasing speed, but I don't necessarily want to go backwards either. If I were to shoot the Sub-1 with my 316 grain bolts with a 125 grain head, I suspect I'd be shooting at about 367 fps (assuming a 1 fps loss per 5 grains of weight gain) and with the XR and those same bolts, I suspect I'd be shooting at about 392 fps (assuming a 1 fps loss per 5 grains of weight gain.) Does that loss in speed help reduce any potential for limb and string/cable wear issues?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,238 Posts
The RSD system would still be an option. Can that be purchased as an add-on later?
Yep.

I understand that the Sub-1 and the XR both have 80% let offs, but they draw at 200 and 250 pounds respectively.
The XR is a bit stout through the first half of the cocking stroke due to the heavier limbs. The Sub1 is quite a bit easier. Both get relatively easy towards the end due to the high let off. Many add the optional foot stirrup onto the Sub series to make cocking a bit easier, instead of having to stand on the riser. I have added that yet and probably won't.

Does that loss in speed help reduce any potential for limb and string/cable wear issues?
Going heavier will slow it down but generally speaking a heavier arrow makes the bow quieter and eases limb stress.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top