Now that Rifle season is winding down I was thinking if we get some snow it would be a good time to start scouting for next year. I am Thinking of trying a new area. It would be classified as big woods. I am not real familiar with hunting the big woods. I want to look at some maps but was wondering what you guys look for in the big woods. I know there is some clear cuts that are getting pretty thick but a lot of these are close to the road. The area is not real steap. Just not sure what to look for on a map and then get boots on the ground. Thanks for any help.
Scouting
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My son always looks for "saddles" as travel routes for bucks....I could best describe them as a narrow flat with drop offs on both sides.....not talking steep drop offs necessarily....are very visible on a topo map.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Check out the book "Mapping Trophy Whitetails". It goes into full detail on how to read topographic maps and explains where deer like certain places in big woods that you can easily distinguish via topo mapping.
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The good thing about scouting in the snow just after rifle season ends is that you are able to figure out where the deer go once the heat is on. Store that information for next year and be there once the orange army starts invading the woods.
The "mapping trophy whitetails" is a book I own and is a great read. If your targeting big mature bucks, the most important thing is to find beds. Now with snow your only seeing tracks which doesn't determine antler size but big tracks will determine body size and maturity. If you can find a clean walking track you can fit 4 fingers into, you have a big bodied deer which is more likely to have big antlers. From their you want to back track where he was and find out where he is bedded. A mature buck won't travel far from his bed so it's important to know his different bedding locations, especially in the vast big woods where you can be way off of a population of deer. Remember the wind and conditions for what you find.
Finding a mature track to start the process can be tough though. You said the area doesn't have a lot of terrain. What does the area have as far as swamps or ridges? Waterways and clear cuts are a big factor for browse and water.
Finding a mature track to start the process can be tough though. You said the area doesn't have a lot of terrain. What does the area have as far as swamps or ridges? Waterways and clear cuts are a big factor for browse and water.
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Any more 99% of my scouting is done with topo maps. I actually only get about 4 hours a year boots on the ground time. Now that rifle will be over I will be out grouse hunting with my lab and make notes and such on what I see. Learning to read a topo map will be the best thing you can learn with your deer hunting if you are in mountainous areas. You can really narrow down what areas to put actual boots on the ground with and such.
Looking at aerial maps will also help you narrow down thickets and such. After this year I am convinced that once you see bucks cruising setting up down wind of doe bedding areas is huge! When you are out there not only look for buck sign, but have doe bedding locations locked in for the rut. You can tell doe bedding by smaller track or a group of beds arranged somewhat circular facing different directions. If you can find these keep a mental note or log them in your gps for the rut next year. Or look for those clear cuts and such on the aerial maps.
Finding rubs and such may give you an idea of the areas that bucks use and such, but are tricky in my opinion. I find rubs to be more of an outer perimeter of the bucks area. His core is what I would hope to focus on if you want to try to get him out of the rut.
Looking at aerial maps will also help you narrow down thickets and such. After this year I am convinced that once you see bucks cruising setting up down wind of doe bedding areas is huge! When you are out there not only look for buck sign, but have doe bedding locations locked in for the rut. You can tell doe bedding by smaller track or a group of beds arranged somewhat circular facing different directions. If you can find these keep a mental note or log them in your gps for the rut next year. Or look for those clear cuts and such on the aerial maps.
Finding rubs and such may give you an idea of the areas that bucks use and such, but are tricky in my opinion. I find rubs to be more of an outer perimeter of the bucks area. His core is what I would hope to focus on if you want to try to get him out of the rut.
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I mostly hunt big woods and I love thick clear cuts for rifle hunting, no matter where they are.
One of my best all time rifle stands was a mature tree in a clear cut that was left standing.
There were several trails that went past it, almost like the deer were using it as a reference point.
If you are looking for a bow stand, I also recommend " Mapping Trophy Whitetails", it's
my second Bible.
One of my best all time rifle stands was a mature tree in a clear cut that was left standing.
There were several trails that went past it, almost like the deer were using it as a reference point.
If you are looking for a bow stand, I also recommend " Mapping Trophy Whitetails", it's
my second Bible.
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Post season is the best time to scout, snow or no snow. The deer trails are distinctive this time of year and the rubs and scrapes from the deer sign from the past fall are still easily visible.
As far as mapping the big woods, there are many different things I look for. I have that book that was mentioned "Mapping Trophy Bucks" and it does have some useful tidbits, but a lot of it is meant for farmland bluff country and doesn't apply as well to the big woods. I hunt two different types of big woods also, the plateau region, which sounds like where you are looking at, and the ridge and valley. Each has different features that affect deer movement. Remember that terrain features don't have to be extreme to affect deer movement. Even the most subtle benches and saddles influence deer movement if it is the easiest safe route of travel. I also find funnels to be highly effective, except where a lot of whitetail hunters are using open fields or CRP to funnel movement, my big woods funnels are typically created by either unpenetrable laurel or rock gardens. Neither of those are easily mapped, but I have found a few really good ones just wandering through the woods.
Clearcuts are great food sources and cover at the right age. Deer need food and cover to survive and thrive, so covering both their appeal is obvious. I have several good archery stands on clearcut edges. One thing I often see is other hunters place stands at the outside corner of a clear cut. Deer trails rarely use those outside corners unless driven by some other terrain feature. Inside corners, logging roads in the cut, and terrain features like benches and saddles influence deer travel in and out of the cut. Another thing to just be aware is that the DCNR fences most of their clearcuts for about 10-15 years and the PGC fences some as well. Those are obviously useless until the fences come down.
As far as mapping the big woods, there are many different things I look for. I have that book that was mentioned "Mapping Trophy Bucks" and it does have some useful tidbits, but a lot of it is meant for farmland bluff country and doesn't apply as well to the big woods. I hunt two different types of big woods also, the plateau region, which sounds like where you are looking at, and the ridge and valley. Each has different features that affect deer movement. Remember that terrain features don't have to be extreme to affect deer movement. Even the most subtle benches and saddles influence deer movement if it is the easiest safe route of travel. I also find funnels to be highly effective, except where a lot of whitetail hunters are using open fields or CRP to funnel movement, my big woods funnels are typically created by either unpenetrable laurel or rock gardens. Neither of those are easily mapped, but I have found a few really good ones just wandering through the woods.
Clearcuts are great food sources and cover at the right age. Deer need food and cover to survive and thrive, so covering both their appeal is obvious. I have several good archery stands on clearcut edges. One thing I often see is other hunters place stands at the outside corner of a clear cut. Deer trails rarely use those outside corners unless driven by some other terrain feature. Inside corners, logging roads in the cut, and terrain features like benches and saddles influence deer travel in and out of the cut. Another thing to just be aware is that the DCNR fences most of their clearcuts for about 10-15 years and the PGC fences some as well. Those are obviously useless until the fences come down.
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Yes, books and topo maps can give you a good start but boots on the ground and trail cams can show you the best of what's going on!
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I use a hand held GPS and mark everything I find. Downloading the info onto the computer makes it easy to study. I also take lots of pictures so that I can recall areas that I walked after the season.
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I have never learned to scout off of a topo map. Which with limited time the old method of picking a parking lot then walking, walking, and more walking until I find deer or deer sign has become a limiting factor in my scouting. When looking at a topo map what features are you looking for? How do you identify these features?
I need to up my scouting game after a very poor showing in archery season and mediocre rifle season. I am tired of blaming the pgc for lack of deer. Although I will contend in areas deer numbers are way way down, I need to adapt. I need to do something different since what I am doing is only delivering poor to average results.
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I have learned 90% of my scouting tactics from John Eberhart's dvds. He covers everything for scouting heavily hunted ground. He has one on post-season scouting, pre-season, and in-season. Definitely a good Christmas gift, lol.
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On public the number one feature I look for is good deer habitat that is not terribly pressured. This can be hard to access or just randomly underhunted. Hard to access doesn't necessarily mean far. Then again sometimes it does, I have several stands that are 2 mile hikes in and some stands that are <50 yards off a road. It can mean a rough drive, steep hike, confusing boundaries, or a number of other things too. Smart old bucks and does know not to hang out 300 yards off the busy game lands parking lots.
I don't just obtain these places from maps. One of my favorite methods is on years I shoot a deer in archery, to spend a few hours on the first day of rifle and busy Saturdays, just driving around various public lands seeing where the pressure is generally distributed. This helps pinpoint underused areas. Driving around also just helps me find general areas that "look good" or have the right habitat.
I use about 6 different map sources. Google Earth (be sure to use historical images to try to find pictures without leaves, also allows you to age clearcuts). Garmin Basecamp syncs with my GPS and interfaces with Google Earth for waypoints and tracks. Caltopo has some cool topo customization features. PGC and DCNR have web apps that map SGLs and State Forest features including cuts and food plots. As far as what I look for there's just too much to go into entirely. Saddles, benches, ridges and natural funnels of various types; cuts, trails, logging roads, manmade funnels etc. Keep aspect in mind also with the different plant growth characteristics that occur on North and South facing slopes. When I find a feature I like, I load the feature into my GPS as a waypoint with a designated icon to check that area out. After one scouting trip I throw out probably 80% of those areas due to lack of sign or crappy habitat, so it's still not a high percentage endeavor, but much better than it would be just wandering through the woods.
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That was lots of good info. This may seem like a simple question but to take a step back how do you identify a saddle, bench, or funnel on a map to know where to start looking?
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A saddle is simply a low dip between two higher points. In mountainous terrain it can be pretty drastic, or in flatter ground it can be as subtle as a few feet elevation difference. Pretty basic to id on a map but over time you will get a feel for which ones are better than others. Do some googling, there are lots of articles how to read all these things on a topo map. Deer like us are lazy and will take the easiest safe route between two points.
Benches are a little harder to id on a topo map. You can see the large ones obviously where the lines space out more than the rest of the slope, but that can be tough and impossible to id some of the more subtle benches, and the more subtle benches can be better. The best map I use to id benches is caltopo.com - the shaded relief map. They stick right out on that view.
Hunting the big woods, I use the term funnel probably more loosely than some. Traditionally you see them as inside corners of ag fields and such. In the big woods they can be terrain based or man made. Terrain based ones are cliffs or steep hills, the head of deep gullies, thick laurel or really any edge habitat etc. Man made ones are clearcuts, clearings, even roads, one of my spots uses a point above a major interstate to funnel deer right past me.
Anytime terrain features are combined, it’s like they have a multiplier effect….two benches converging onto a saddle with oaks on one side of the ridge and steep bedding laurel on the other…yep, that’s my best rut spot. It's a constant learning process. Get the basics down and just spend time in the woods scouting and let the deer teach you the rest.
Benches are a little harder to id on a topo map. You can see the large ones obviously where the lines space out more than the rest of the slope, but that can be tough and impossible to id some of the more subtle benches, and the more subtle benches can be better. The best map I use to id benches is caltopo.com - the shaded relief map. They stick right out on that view.
Hunting the big woods, I use the term funnel probably more loosely than some. Traditionally you see them as inside corners of ag fields and such. In the big woods they can be terrain based or man made. Terrain based ones are cliffs or steep hills, the head of deep gullies, thick laurel or really any edge habitat etc. Man made ones are clearcuts, clearings, even roads, one of my spots uses a point above a major interstate to funnel deer right past me.
Anytime terrain features are combined, it’s like they have a multiplier effect….two benches converging onto a saddle with oaks on one side of the ridge and steep bedding laurel on the other…yep, that’s my best rut spot. It's a constant learning process. Get the basics down and just spend time in the woods scouting and let the deer teach you the rest.
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Another thing to look for is where 2 distinct types of cover meet. The thicker cover is harder to travel through so bucks generally cut out into the more open cover when they travel. Find a pinch along this travel corridor where the wind doesn't bite you and you'll get opportunities there.
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Thanks guys. I have always hunted edges of thick cover and more open woods. I have just never been able to figure out how the terrain plays into the why I see deer in some places on those edges and why I don't in others.
I did once find one of those spots that had everything going for it, cover, terrain, a natural funnel. It was like I couldn't got to that spot and not be on deer. Unfortunately that spot is now an oil well pad.
All the information has been hugely helpful and I hope to apply some of it soon when I get out and do some post season scouting with a plan.
I did once find one of those spots that had everything going for it, cover, terrain, a natural funnel. It was like I couldn't got to that spot and not be on deer. Unfortunately that spot is now an oil well pad.
All the information has been hugely helpful and I hope to apply some of it soon when I get out and do some post season scouting with a plan.
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I use topo maps to find area's that the terrain dictates how bucks will use and travel thru a certain area. I use ariel photos to locate types of cover & man made things like old logging trails and stone walls etc.that dictates how bucks will use and travel thru an area. Then I let the deer sign and trail cam pics in these areas determine which of the spots I found using maps and photos to hunt. But please note... just because it looks like an amazing funnel, bedding area etc to you and lots of deer doesn't mean mature bucks will like the area. When scouting these area's also pay attention to how the terrain dictates how the thermals travel thru the areas.
Maps and photos are great tools that let you reduce the amount of time spent scouting a particular tract of land by 75-80%
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