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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A number of years ago, I had the opportunity to buy a S&W 22 auto while sitting at a bar in Armstrong County. It was new in the box and I was told it was never fired. I spent $50.00 for the pistol and put it away. Well, while looking for XMas decorations, my wife found it in our walk in closet, and I had forgot all about it. How can I register this pistol without a receipt or any other documentation?
 

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Serb Paul said:
... How can I register this pistol without a receipt or any other documentation?
There is no "official" registration in PA. You don't have to do anything.
 

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I'd call a gun shop and ask them.
Did you know the guy you bought if from? If not, you may have a stolen gun or maybe even a weapon used in a crime.

I would not buy a gun in the same cercumstances. But it may be an up and up deal.
 

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I bought a gun from a lady whos grandfather passed away I don't know her and want to register it now, can I do that???(don't know how to get a hold of her now)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the answers. I talked to a gunsmith (new to the profession) and was told not to carry or use the pistol. He wasn't sure about registering it. I would like to carry it and target shoot at my club. Thats why I wanted to register the Smith. Any more help will be greatly appreciated!!
 

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shop i work at will not do a transfer except from another ffl, with death paperwork, or a face-to-face with both parties PRESENT. there may be "gray" ways to do a registration for this BUT could be considered fraud!!!!
 

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Serb Paul said:
Thanks for the answers. I talked to a gunsmith (new to the profession) and was told not to carry or use the pistol. He wasn't sure about registering it. I would like to carry it and target shoot at my club. Thats why I wanted to register the Smith. Any more help will be greatly appreciated!!
If you want to carry it, go to your county sheriff and apply for a License to Carry Firearms (LtCF).
 

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Serb Paul said:
A number of years ago, I had the opportunity to buy a S&W 22 auto while sitting at a bar in Armstrong County. It was new in the box and I was told it was never fired. I spent $50.00 for the pistol and put it away. Well, while looking for XMas decorations, my wife found it in our walk in closet, and I had forgot all about it. How can I register this pistol without a receipt or any other documentation?
You bought the gun illegally. It should have been transfered through a FFL. Now, without the other person being in the picture, you can't legally transfer the firearm.
 

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Boy, I am going from memory here and may be wrong, but I remember back in the late 60's and early 70's that you could buy a handgun anywhere, Out of State, or from a private individual without Federal Paperwork. Then, as emphasis on gun control picked up, legistlation was passed (late 70's or early 80's?) to restrict sales via an FFL to your home State with a three day waiting period while your information was reviewed by law enforcement. Later, as a result of the shooting of James Brady during the Reagan assassination attempt in 1981, the Brady Bill and today's restrictions where you are compared against a real time computer data base. Since many FFL dealers may not be experienced with this specific set of events, I personally would call and explain the situation to your local police or State police and see what they advise.
 

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I would not go to either police agency for guidance, without first contacting an attorney experienced in firearms law.

PA has no requirement for registering handguns, per se, although the PSP is getting away with keeping a record of handgun transfers anyway. The PA Supreme Court has already upheld the practice, despite a suit filed by ACSL and others.

What we do have, are state and federal laws on the transfer of hanguns. I don't know what the ramifications are for possessing a handgun transferred prior to these laws, if indeed that's what happened here? An attorney well-versed in such laws, should know.
 

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You are allowed to transfer handguns from grandparent and parent to children and from childern to parent/grandparents without going through an FFL. You can also transfer between spouses without going through FFL.
 

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Yep, but that wouldn't apply to the OP's scenario of having obtained a handgun from someone he didn't know, possibly prior to all the later regs being enacted?
 

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Well I guess the big question here is was the gun ever reported stolen? I guess anyone could say they are selling it to you and pay to have the paperwork done. Will someone catch the fact that the seller was not previously listed as the buyer of this gun in the paper trail? This could get you locked up I would imagine causing you to spend several thousands of dollars in attorney fees to get it straightened out... Especially if it is on record as a stolen gun. $50 sounds pretty cheap for a new gun to me. That should have been a red flag right away to you.
 

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Pa has no gun registration, the federal government has no gun registration. Right, wrong, or indifferent you have the gun. Depending on when the sale happened it could have been illegal with no transfer paperwork. However, no federal or state paperwork of origin is required to possess or own a handgun. I have handguns I bought used and new, in and out of state a long time ago. No one knows I have them and it is all legal.

I had a robbery a few years ago and 5 handguns were stolen. I had the serial numbers for them and submitted it to insurance and PSP. The PSP could only find 1 of the serial numbers in any records. This also happened to be 1 of the 2 guns that were later recovered. But the serial number did not match, make, model, or caliber in their records, someone got the entry screwed up years ago. So they asked if I would ID the gun as one of mine that was stolen, I did, it was. They asked if I wanted it back and I refused because insurance already paid me full retail for it.

You have the gun, it may or may not have been stolen, it may or may not been properly transferred depending on date, but you are under no obligation to go and give somebody serial numbers of the guns in your possesion. We don't live in Canada.

The NCIC only records a persons name, no gun numbers. By law the PSP can ONLY maintain records matching serial number to a successful NCIC check number (verifies this gun is in the hands of "some" qualified individual), it is illegal for PSP to record a serial number to a persons name. The only person that matches a serial number to a name is the FFL in their personal records, they report only the serial number and NCIC check to PSP on a prescribed interval. Of course in an investigation the PSP will take the serial number and then go to the tranferring FFL to get only the info for that serial number. If the FFL lost the data it is gone forever.

Carry permits in Pa do not list individual guns.
 

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All valid points.

Sportsmen's Permits no longer list specific guns/serial numbers either, as they once did.

My bud and I used to drive the people nuts in the Tioga Co. treasurer's office each year, because that's where we stopped to renew our Sportsmen's Permits, prior to getting our LTCFs. I would get two permits, my buddy would get 4 or 5 "weapon-specific" permits. One year the gal asked us if we knew where our own county courthouses were?

Said yep, but we drive right past this one every time we go to camp and we can park right in front of it, for free. She was not amused.

 

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tundragriz said:
...
The NCIC only records a persons name, no gun numbers. By law the PSP can ONLY maintain records matching serial number to a successful NCIC check number (verifies this gun is in the hands of "some" qualified individual), it is illegal for PSP to record a serial number to a persons name. The only person that matches a serial number to a name is the FFL in their personal records, they report only the serial number and NCIC check to PSP on a prescribed interval. Of course in an investigation the PSP will take the serial number and then go to the tranferring FFL to get only the info for that serial number. If the FFL lost the data it is gone forever.
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I believe you are confusing NCIC with NICS, two separate and distinct automated systems. The National Crime Information Center (NCIC) database does include serial numbers of firearms and other property as submitted by law enforcement agencies, along with information on individuals.

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is a national system that checks records on persons who may be disqualified from receiving firearms.
 

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Tundragriz has it rignt. I asked this same question over the summer and the thread became mighty long. No need to register because it doesn't exist it Pa. Thank God and you smart voters out there!!!! Did you ever hear of beating a dead horse? Put your 22 away and give it to your grandkids someday.
 

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there is no such thing as registration in Pa. the problem is you made an illegal transfer of a hand gun already. there is no great way to fix that. The only way to remedy that is to go to a gun shop and do a transfer. the problem is who do you transfer it from? the reality of this situation is you have a gun that "belongs" to the last owner on paper, not you. so if you commit a crime with that gun and wipe the prints off then drop it at the scene; the police will eventually end up at the last "paper" owner's door. He is the one that has really opened himself up to possible problems.
 

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Turn it in at a gun buy back program.You will get more than you paid for it.Then buy a new one and it will be registered properly.That or take it apart and throw parts every place you can think of and wash your hands of it.If the gun is stolen and found in your posession $50 will seem like chump change to you.If used in a crime you will have to testify as to how you came to own the gun.I would guess you make more than $50 a day.Federal court pays better than county so hope for a federal case if you keep it.
 
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