[fireinahorn]

Unable to use ball starter if jag is left attached to the rod. If jag is removed, the end of the rod is not cupped to fit the ball like the stock ramrod and the RMC jag is.

This is my first flintlock experience. Anyone have advice for this issue?

I got the replacement ramrod from RMC and the quality is excellent except for one end not being cupped for loading. I contacted RMC and he said he is unable to create a cupped end, only cut to custom size.

Any workaround for this issue? I see rifles with extended jags on them fairly often so someone must have had this problem also?

 

[Blue Bird]

Not sure I follow. Are you not using a short starter to first get a ball started into the bore? If you use a short starter, you can then simply ram the ball home with the cupped end of the jag on the rod pictured.....

When at the range I always used a cupped jag on my range rod to seat the ball. It enables more contact on the ball and IMO causes less deformation of the top of the ball if you need to tamp a ball slightly to firmly seat it on the powder. I only use the supplied ramrod when hunting, where I'm normally only loading the ball down a clean, or nearly clean barrel, which usually offers little resistance.

 

[wstrouse]

If I understand the question correctly, you typically only keep the jag on at the range, not hunting. The female screw end of the ramrod is typically facing towards the breech when hunting. On my Lyman the end opposite the female screw end is slightly enlarged and cupped. It would not be possible to insert that end towards the breech.

What does the other end of your rod look like?

 

[Curly Maple]

He could just leave the length of the ramrod where it is, and replace the extended jag with a button jag. It will still protrude but it may be tolerable for him. It is handy, while hunting, not to have to always dig out the jag to run a cleaning patch down the bore between shots...

 

[tdd]

Hard to tell, but is that an all-brass rod? That's gotta be heavy if so....?

I might be tempted in this case to measure the rod in place for diameter, then buy a similarly sized work rod or unfinished rod, cut to appropriate length, then round the end at the muzzle when in the pipes and use it without an end on it. My long rifle rods are bare wood on the ends and work fine.

It would annoy the living snot out of me to have a jag hanging out the end of the rifle like that. I know I'd be snagging it on stuff constantly.

 

[Freeebird]

I never gave this any thought before. I went and checked the two rifles I hunt with. both the renegade
with an all brass ramrod and the custom I built that has a fiberglass ramrod I have the jags on both. I've
killed plenty of deer with both but don't recall if I had to reload quickly that I would have to take the
ramrod out before I could use the ball starter. I had to have taken it out first as I just tried it and I
definitely hit my fingers on the jag. LOL But at the range I always leave the ramrod out.
I looked at the brass ram rod on the renegade and I have used it without the jag because the other end is
cupped and still fits thru the thimbles.

 

[tdd]

This could lead to the question of whether or not a starter is necessary.

My deer gun has a coned muzzle, and while I'll use a short starter for ease of loading at the range, I've loaded it in the field with no short starter.

My 36 has a squared off muzzle, and when I was squirrel hunting in Feb, I managed to lose my short starter (don't ask, lol) while hunting. I reloaded it just fine with the rod only.

So I guess the other question you could ask here .... Is a short starter really needed?

 

[Blue Bird]

If he's asking about the jag sticking out the way it is, I say no big deal. I see many guys at the range, and when hunting that have rods that stick out like this. On most guns, a rod that fits neatly under the barrel, will only leave an inch or slightly more of ramrod out of the bore when the ball is rammed home, or if using a jag when cleaning. Not too easy to get your hand around an inch of wood if the rod gets stuck in the bore from a tight cleaning patch, or if you need to pull a ball.

As to the need for a short starter, I for one say they are necessary. Yes, I've heard there is no real record of their use during colonial times, etc, but nowdays they're a popular and useful item. All it will take is one hard to load ball then you realize you need one. Sometimes you just can't get enough leverage on a tight fitting ball with just the ram rod to pop it into the bore. The knob on the short starter does the trick.

 

[tdd]

This is why I asked the question...truly asked.

For a properly lubed/fitted PRB, I don't think they are NECESSARY for hunting. Nice, sure. When I have time, yeah, I'm good with using one just to make life easy.

I've loaded both my rifles without one, quite a bit.

But a full bore projectile will foul more, and often only allows 2 or 3 shots before cleaning or you won't get the projectile down all the way. That's a totally different animal.

Hence my question to the OP as to whether a short starter is really needed.

 

[USAF_SP]

I purposely make my ramrods long, with a button jag attached. Give me something to grip when I swab a barrel. My using a short starter is no problem

 

[mauser06]

Easy fix...

Looks like a solid brass rod?

Cut it an inch or whatever length you need to get it to sit flush. Drill a hole in the cut end and tap it to 10-32 or 8-32. Whatever thread the accessories you use is.

I know not traditional...But I have my hunting rods on 2 of my rifles setup like that. One end stays with a nice jag to load/clean. Other end it tapped and will take my T handle. If I need to pull a ball, recover a slipped patch, etc I can take the Jag off and put a patch worm or ball screw on and the other end I can put my T handle on if needed. When pulling a ball I put the T handle on, screw into the ball, turn the rifle muzzle down and stand on the T handle and it comes right out.

Comes in handy. I've pulled balls in the middle of the woods when needed...I've had my spring break while I jumped a creek and had to pull the main charge in the woods.

 

[USAF_SP]

I'm guessing the reason I don't have a problem with a ball starter with my ramrod long is that, when hunting, I use either a load block or speed loader. When I use those, I don't use the short nub to start the ball, but the longer rod on the starter since I'm pushing the ball through the block or speed loader. On the bench, my ramrod is always out. The other end of my ramrod has a TC end so I can screw on a T-handle to pull a ball if need be

 

[blackpowder]

why not just take a bigger drill bit and "cup" the flat end, touch up the threads with a tap if they need it and file smooth the edges?

 

[fireinahorn]

Thanks everyone.
The original ramrod is cupped on one end and threaded for a jag on the other.The quality is marginal.
This rod is a replacement for that one, an all brass rod from RMC.

It is threaded at both ends to use as a range rod with a T-handle or use as the main ramrod. The cleaning jag is also cupped out for loading .50 round ball, so I was just going to leave it on for loading and wiping. I don't care if it protrudes a bit from the muzzle, I just wondered how experienced shooters dealt with the short starter issue.

I have an antler handled starter with a totally new geometry as opposed to the ball-knob starter and this seems to work pretty well while leaving the jag attached.


Thanks all for your suggestions and input VERY MUCH! I'll start trying some solutions and see what works best.

 

[fireinahorn]

This is why I asked the question...truly asked.

For a properly lubed/fitted PRB, I don't think they are NECESSARY for hunting. Nice, sure. When I have time, yeah, I'm good with using one just to make life easy.

I've loaded both my rifles without one, quite a bit.

But a full bore projectile will foul more, and often only allows 2 or 3 shots before cleaning or you won't get the projectile down all the way. That's a totally different animal.

Hence my question to the OP as to whether a short starter is really needed.

I don't think it would be absolutely necessary. Consensus is the Lymans have deeper cut rifling and need a thicker ball/patch combination for a good seal. I haven't shot it yet, I just know I could not use my round-knob ball starter if needed without it hitting the top of the jag with the knob. Thanks for the input.

 

[Blue Bird]

I don't think it would be absolutely necessary. Consensus is the Lymans have deeper cut rifling and need a thicker ball/patch combination for a good seal. I haven't shot it yet, I just know I could not use my round-knob ball starter if needed without it hitting the top of the jag with the knob. Thanks for the input.

Just take the rod out of its guides before you use the short starter. Then it doesn't matter what kind of ball starter you have. I see what you're saying now. I normally load patch and ball at my truck just prior to stepping into the woods for a day's hunting. I normally remove the ramrod, and lay it on the seat, then pour powder, and run the patched ball into the bore with the short starter. I then finish the job with the ram rod, then replace the rod into the guides. I then prime when at my hunting location.

Now if I were you, I'd use the brass rod simply as a range rod, and use the (I'm guessing)supplied ramrod, when you go hunting, since you will more than likely only need to use it to load one or maybe two times depending upon whether you fire the weapon or not during a hunt.

I never use the rods that came with my guns at the range. They'd break or wear out too quickly. I have a fiberglass loading/cleaning rod, with a permanently attached cupped jag so I can use it to load and clean with. I bought it in .50 cal even though my gun is .54. I did this so my kid can also use it with his Traditions .50 cal gun. I also bring along a steel rod that I made myself that's got a T-handle attached. That rod stays in the truck unless we get a stuck ball. I made that rod strictly to pull balls and nothing else.

 

[410-er]

Button jag would be shorter.

 

[fireinahorn]

I purposely make my ramrods long, with a button jag attached. Give me something to grip when I swab a barrel. My using a short starter is no problem

Seeing as it's not tapered, Is there any issue with patch not fitting when swabbing with a button jag?

 

[USAF_SP]

I don't have any problems when swabbing the barrel with a patch and button jag. On rare occasions a dry patch may give me some problems. But, on the other end of my ramrods I put a TC 10-32 thread end. If need be, and if I need to pull a ball, I can screw my T-handle on to let me pull them.

 

[fireinahorn]

I don't have any problems when swabbing the barrel with a patch and button jag. On rare occasions a dry patch may give me some problems. But, on the other end of my ramrods I put a TC 10-32 thread end. If need be, and if I need to pull a ball, I can screw my T-handle on to let me pull them.

Mine is threaded on both also. That was my plan for pulling a ball as well.
This starter I have is threaded, so if i can find a 10/32 male to male adapter I can leave the t handle at home and use the starter handle I was thinking...but I guess the leg is only glued in there so maybe not a good idea after all.