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Discussion Starter #1
I really hope the PGC bans the use of deer urine next year. Make it illegal to possess it. We can't take any risks for CWD.
 

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Has there been any proven cases where the prions that cause CWS were present in any urine based lure? Not trying to start anything, I'm just wondering.
 

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troutman42 said:
Not that I know of Danesdad. I think there's alot less known about it than we think.
Please provide a link to a study or survey that was done on this topic before the sky begins to fall...Please don't make things up to justify your paranoia.
 

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ICAREDOYOU said:
Now they say that the deer that tested pos for CWD ...didn't have it....WHAT GIVES???
The deer that escaped the same enclosure that contained another deer that tested positive was killed and tested negative.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Danesdad said:
Has there been any proven cases where the prions that cause CWS were present in any urine based lure? Not trying to start anything, I'm just wondering.
It can't be passed on thru urine? If that's truly the case, I apologize for my post. I thought I read somewhere that using deer urine can introduce it to the area. Even if it is a slight risk, ban it to be safe.
 

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It is passed through urine. Since many times CWD starts in captive herds and urine sold to hunters comes from captive herds it would only be prudent to ban the use of urine. There is synthetic urine for those who feel the need to use it. I don't care one bit about deer farms, I do care about our wild deer.
 

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Bill_Weber_RRT said:
troutman42 said:
Not that I know of Danesdad. I think there's alot less known about it than we think.
please provide a link to a study or survey that was done on this topic before the sky begins to fall...Please don't make things up to justify your paranoia.




Veterinarian: State should consider deer-feeding ban to combat CWD


Monday, October 15, 2012





UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. -- On the heels of finding chronic wasting disease in a Pennsylvania deer, it's time for the state's game commissioners to consider a ban on deer feeding, according to a veterinarian in Penn State's College of Agricultural Sciences.

It actually is past time, noted David Wolfgang, extension veterinarian and field studies director in veterinary and biomedical sciences.

"The commissioners should follow the advice they have been given by a variety of deer experts, including the agency's own wildlife veterinarian, and stop the feeding of deer," he said. "When we feed deer, we congregate the animals, and that dramatically increases the potential that diseases, such as chronic wasting disease (CWD), will spread among them. There is no disagreement about that."

The Board of Game Commissioners in the past has outlawed the feeding of bears and elk in the state, so there is precedent for banning the feeding of deer, Wolfgang pointed out. "It would be wise for them to go ahead now and do the right thing for the wildlife of Pennsylvania," he said.

Wolfgang represents Penn State on the state's Chronic Wasting Disease Task Force, which also includes representatives from the Game Commission and the state departments of agriculture and health. He is most concerned about another practice that game commissioners could stop: the placing of salt or mineral blocks for deer.

"Where salt licks or mineral blocks are put out, obviously deer congregate, and that is bad enough," Wolfgang explained. "But what's worse is that after being exposed to rain and snow, the minerals leach into the surrounding ground, and then for years deer bite and chew at the dirt.

"If a CWD-infected deer would visit the mineral lick, prions that spread the disease likely would get into the soil from its urine and feces. The last thing we want is for deer to be eating dirt in areas where deer have congregated."

Wolfgang, who is a past president of the Pennsylvania Veterinary Medical Association, also is worried about the wide use of deer urine by bowhunters as a lure or attractant. He suggested that game commissioners consider banning that practice in Pennsylvania, as well.

Doe urine, collected at deer farms across the country, is packaged commercially and sold to help archers draw into arrow-shooting range the mature bucks they seek.

"Some scientists now wonder if the wide distribution of doe urine might be partly responsible for the spread of CWD from the West to the East," he said.

"Doe urine from deer in other states should not be introduced into Pennsylvania soils. Even the small risk that the purchased doe urine might contain CWD-causing prions should discourage responsible hunters from using it."

The Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture in early October confirmed the first positive case of chronic wasting disease in the state on a deer farm in Adams County. The 3-year-old doe was born at a deer farm in Lycoming County and had lived at a deer farm in York County as well. Subsequently the state quarantined all three locations.

Agriculture Department officials are now trying to determine whether other captive deer at those facilities were infected, and if CWD might have been passed onto wild deer in those areas.

The disease attacks the brains of infected deer, elk and moose, producing small lesions that eventually result in death. It is transmitted by direct animal-to-animal contact through saliva, feces and urine.

Infected animals may not show signs of the disease in the early stages, which can last for years. However, as the disease progresses, infected animals begin to lose body functions and display abnormal behaviors, such as staggering or failing to respond to threats, such as the approach of humans or predators. Animals may stand with legs spread far apart, carry their head and ears lowered, and often drool excessively.

Infected animals appear to be in poor body condition and some become emaciated. Infected animals are often found near water and drink large quantities. However, these symptoms are characteristic of diseases other than CWD and that is why the diagnosis comes only after death. The only certified test for CWD requires killing an animal and examining its brainstem.

CWD first was discovered in Colorado among captive mule deer in 1967 and since has been detected in 22 states and Canadian provinces, including Pennsylvania's neighboring states of New York, West Virginia and Maryland. Pennsylvania is the 23rd state to find CWD in either a captive or wild deer population and the 13th state to have it only in a captive deer herd.

Although chronic wasting disease is fatal in deer, elk and moose, there is no evidence that it can be transmitted to humans, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the World Health Organization.

http://live.psu.edu/story/62013
 

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Double Lung 20 said:
I really hope the PGC bans the use of deer urine next year. Make it illegal to possess it. We can't take any risks for CWD.
it's a neurological disease, you have nothing to worry about. However..... if you use salt licks or have corn troughs in the off season this will spread it. CWD can be transmitted through mucus, therefore when a couple deer are licking the same block simultaneously or when they are feeding outta the same trough and bump noses the disease can be spread.

Just saw blue ticks post, that says it all. Hmmm University park,currently where I am writing this haha

GO PSU!
 

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Deer Urine Banned as Scent Attractant for Hunters
Keeping Chronic Wasting Disease Out of Alaska



By Riley Woodford

When deer hunting season opens in Alaska this August, hunters will no longer be able to use any scent attractants that contain deer or elk urine.

Hunters sometimes use urine-based scents to attract deer or to mask human scent. It is sold in hunting supply stores and through on-line catalogues. Most contain urine from domestic deer, often does in estrus. Deer and elk urine is possible route into Alaska for chronic wasting disease (CWD), a degenerative, fatal illness that affects deer, moose, and elk. The disease has not yet been found in Alaska and wildlife managers are working to keep it out.

<span style="font-weight: bold">“People were using doe urine as a lure in Southeast Alaska, and research has come out showing urine could transmit CWD,” said Kimberlee Beckmen, a veterinarian with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. “Most urine is produced on game farms, some in states where they have CWD, and there are no regulations or standards in place to ensure that scents are disease free. This is a way to completely eliminate that risk factor.”

The urine is collected over grate systems which allow contamination from feces and saliva. The products are not processed to kill any of a number of infectious diseases – and any treatment with chemicals or heat that could effectively disinfect the product would destroy the scent characteristics.</span>

The Department of Fish and Game Alaska submitted the proposal (104) to prohibit the use of deer and elk urine for use in taking game at the statewide Board of Game meeting in Anchorage this past winter. The proposal was supported by citizen advisory committees across the state, including Sitka and Kodiak where deer hunting is popular.

Prevention is critical.

“There's no treatment, no way to eliminate it once you’ve got it,” Beckmen said. “The only way is to keep it from coming in.”

CWD is spreading in cervid populations in the Lower 48 - cervids are members of the deer family. It was first detected in mule deer at a research facility in northern Colorado in the late 1960s. By the mid-1980s, it was found to have spread to free-ranging deer and elk in Colorado and Wyoming.

Over time the diseased continued to spread. It’s been found in free-ranging deer and elk (and in captive or farmed deer and elk) in 19 states and two Canadian provinces. CWD has also been detected in wild moose in Colorado and Wyoming. This month, Texas announced that CWD had been detected in that state for the first time.


Although the disease has not yet been found in wild caribou, evidence from genetics studies conducted in collaboration with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game indicates that caribou are highly likely to be susceptible.

Since 2002, Fish and Game’s Division of Wildlife Conservation has tested almost 3,000 animals for CWD – and all proved to be disease-free. About 400 moose, 2,000 Sitka black-tailed deer, 160 wild elk and 85 caribou were tested; many were provided by hunters or were road-killed animals. Beckmen said necropsies were also performed on animals that were obtained that had any suspicious signs.

“If they were skinny or seemed to have neurological disorders, they were tested,” she said. “There was a lot of roadkill on the Kenai and the Matsu this winter, and those were tested as well. But that was the last of the surveillance program, the federal funding for CWD testing has been eliminated.”

There are about a dozen facilities in Alaska with privately owned elk and the CWD status of those animals is unknown. Domestic elk and reindeer are considered private livestock and are imported under regulations covering livestock. Game farms are not regulated by Fish and Game and CWD testing there is voluntary. Deer are wild game and can’t be imported without a permit from ADF&G.

There is no evidence that CWD can be transmitted to humans or domestic livestock like cattle, but the disease is a real concern for deer, moose and elk populations. <span style="font-weight: bold">CWD is caused by an infectious protein called prions and is in the same group of diseases as bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE or Mad Cow Disease). No treatment is available for animals affected with CWD, and there is no vaccine available yet to prevent CWD infection in deer or elk. Once clinical signs develop, the disease is invariably fatal.
</span>

The most obvious sign of CWD is progressive weight loss – thus the name chronic wasting disease. In addition to emaciation, classic clinical signs of CWD include wide stance, lowered head, droopy ears and excessive salivation. Although CWD has a long incubation period where no symptoms are apparent, once symptoms appear the clinical course varies from a few days to approximately a year, with most animals surviving from a few weeks to several months.

<span style="font-weight: bold">That extended incubation period – some 18 to 24 months on average between infection and the onset of clinical signs – makes controlling the spread of the disease more difficult. Infected animals may not show symptoms, and infected animals or animal parts may more easily be spread inadvertently. Another problem is the infectious agent – prions.

Prions are extremely resistant to degradation and can persist in the environment for decades in contaminated soil. Prions can also be found in deer saliva, feces and urine, and in the soil where an infected carcass decomposed or where infected animals lived.

A number of states and Canadian provinces have already banned the use of hunting products that contain fluids or tissue from any cervid.</span>

“We want to close all the loopholes to bring CWD up here; we want to remain CWD free,” Beckmen said. “The only way we’ll be able to stay that way is banning at-risk materials.”


http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=563
 

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there have also been studies that it is spread by soil, so if u hunt in a state that has cwd and bring soil back on ur boots, tires, etc. there is a risk of spreading it that way also
 

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Should we also ban the importation of hay and grain from CWD positive areas? I'm going to assume that deer in other states urinate on hay and grain. I also figure that mechanical machinery picks up a certain amount of soil that could be infected, and pack it into hay bales. Hunters driving on fields in those states could also pick up soils and deposit them in Pa. If you think about all the ways this can be spread, there is about a million of them. There is a very large list of things to ban for a plan like this to be effective.
 

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As attack one and arrowhead point out, banning urines is a patch that is seen as easy but the reality is it will probably do nothing to slow the spread of the disease.

All a ban will do is target the hunting and deer farming industry affecting livelihoods while other potential areas of transmission will get a pass.
 

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Real easy here - prevention is far easier than the sickness.

There is no test for CWD or the prions in deer urine. Doesn't exist.

Deer need to be tested when dead only. There is no live test certified by science. The samples are taken from the brain stem of the dead animal.


Deer urine is a vector for this disease. Each and every time it is dragged through the woods, dispersed from a dripper, or spilled from a bottle it opens a possible source of infection. The urine is not sterilized as it would kill the properties that make the urine effective in the first place. Second, prions seemingly can't be killed.

At risk is the entire PA deer herd and deer hunting as we know it. The battle over too many or not enough deer will not even compare to the harm this disease will cause to the herd and hunting in this state if it spreads beyond the current area.

The department of Ag is the lead and controlling entity for CWD in PA. They need to apply the laws and reg's already on the books to control livestock disease for CWD.

Second, the legislature needs to give back the authority for deer farms back to the GC. Real enforcement needs to be excreted on these deer farms and farmers. The potential for wide spread infection of the wild PA deer herd is at stake and the Department of Ag is NOT taking this seriously.
 

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Bluetick said:
Real easy here - prevention is far easier than the sickness.

There is no test for CWD or the prions in deer urine. Doesn't exist.

Deer need to be tested when dead only. There is no live test certified by science. The samples are taken from the brain stem of the dead animal.


Deer urine is a vector for this disease. Each and every time it is dragged through the woods, dispersed from a dripper, or spilled from a bottle it opens a possible source of infection. The urine is not sterilized as it would kill the properties that make the urine effective in the first place. Second, prions seemingly can't be killed.

At risk is the entire PA deer herd and deer hunting as we know it. The battle over too many or not enough deer will not even compare to the harm this disease will cause to the herd and hunting in this state if it spreads beyond the current area.

The department of Ag is the lead and controlling entity for CWD in PA. They need to apply the laws and reg's already on the books to control livestock disease for CWD.

Second, the legislature needs to give back the authority for deer farms back to the GC. Real enforcement needs to be excreted on these deer farms and farmers. The potential for wide spread infection of the wild PA deer herd is at stake and the Department of Ag is NOT taking this seriously.
what do u mean they arent taking it seriously, do u own a deer farm or are u involved in one... if not then how do u know, im not trying to be/sound like a butt j/w
 

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Unless it happened in the last week, the PA department of AG has not imposed a shipment / transport / transfer ban on captive deer in this state or in or out of the state. Meanwhile they continue to track the history of the infected deer. Before I left for a week, they expanded the quarantine list by double or near so and were not finished with the investigation.

If this were a disease in the general livestock industry, they would have locked down the transport of livestock as the law allows. With deer, it appears that the rules are not being enforced as strictly.
 

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JohnS how do you come up with cwd often starts in captive herds??? have a study or any proof?? Have you ever thought the only reason you see in captive herd is because they are indeed captive. Wild ones you wouldn't know.
 

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Look around, most states that I know of that has CWD in deer , it was first discovered in captive herds, it is no secret.
 
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