[t-setter]

PGC biologist Lisa Williams and RGS biologist Dr. Linda Ordiway will speak at the inaugural banquet of the Susquehanna River Valley chapter of the Ruffed Grouse Society at the Genetti Hotel in Williamsport Saturday, Feb. 18. Lisa Williams is leading the PGC study to determine if there is a link between West Nile virus and declining grouse numbers in the Keystone State.

Please consider attending to help make our first banquet a success and to raise funds for habitat improvement work in north-central Pennsylvania.

Details about our new chapter and the banquet can be found on our website, susquehannagrouse.com

 

[htephil]

I plan on attending. Great to see & hear this info firsthand and lots of awesome raffle prizes as well. Hope there's a good turnout so the folks putting in the time and energy to bring this event about will be encouraged.

 

[Lyco Setter]

I heard last call on tickets is coming soon. RGS membership is not required to purchase ticket/attend which can be done at www.susquehannagrouse.com/sportsmens-banquet/ Included with dinner ticket is "a bar drink ticket, door prize entry, hors d'oeurves, appetizers, multi-meat buffet meal, dessert, upland short-film screening, presentations from RGS, PGC and DCNR about PA state grouse status and about a proposed Drummer Fund project. Ample chances for raffles, and auctions". Some of the items I heard up for grabs- full mount grouse or woodcock taxidermy service, 1 full month of pointing dog training at Shady Hills Kennel, sporting clays shoot for several people w/ golf cart use, several guns, Orvis fly rod and reel, RST Shotshells, hunting gear, dog gear, young homing pigeons for springtime pick-up, 1-day retriever training day (train the trainer?), winery gift cards, outdoor gear, etc. The drummer fund project in question would be used as a pilot study that if successful could provide operating procedures to manage low-value birch and beech stands that are widespread on state forests through the state, in a way perhaps akin to commercial aspen stands in some aspects.

I'd considered staying home and just arguing on the internet, but that gets old and doesn't get much done.

 

[jimbridger]

Hopefully Alt left his BP vest behind. Jester. Waugh!

 

[RuffsNSetters]

I hope our HPA grouse experts aka: Lost Again & Dap attend so Linda and Lisa can console with them. As we all know, they are the true experts on grouse and probably everything!

 

[dap]

I hope our HPA grouse experts aka: Lost Again & Dap attend so Linda and Lisa can console with them. As we all know, they are the true experts on grouse and probably everything!

Lisa Williams will be attending many banquets throughout the state. I exchanged emails with Lisa and went on a grouse hunt where she "tagged along". I will be attending a local banquet where Lisa will be speaking, as will LostAgain. I will suggest that the grouse season length vary by WMU, that she push the commissioners and PGC even harder for habitat creation and point out that her expectation that most grouse not killed by hunters in January will make it to breed in April may not be the case.

Will you and your sons be attending a banquet as well?

 

[Dean Conklin]

Jimbridger, I am having trouble understanding your post of "Hopefully Alt left his BP vest behind. Jester. Waugh!". Please explain.

Does it have anything to do with personal protection for our military?

For a good time, bring your checkbooks and appetites to the RGS tomorrow nite.

Dean Conklin

"The Struggle Continues"

 

[jimbridger]

You are not having a hard time understanding. And I am not having a hard time knowing when I am being solicited for money. Like I tell all the solicitors send it in the mail and hope I am in a good mood when it arrives.
Do you think she is going to stray away from her presentation that she gave to the commission? Do you think it would matter what she hears now that the RGS sent a letter of support? OK Maybe. Just don't bet your checkbooks. Waugh!

 

[htephil]

Great presentation by the PGC and RGS personnel last night.
It looks like this new RGS chapter will be an active one. A couple HPA members put in countless hours making this event a success so Kudos to them. I'd be willing to bet that their "no pressure" format to the fund raising part of the evening was a great success as folks didn't have to feel obligated to spend a penny beyond the cost of the meal ticket. Lots of smiling faces afterwards and only heard positive remarks & answers to the info provided by the PGC Biologist/Forester/RGS Biologist & employees. I now better understand the criteria used by the PGC (much based on hunter input & surveys along with agency findings) in the decision to close the late season for the upcoming year.:encouragement:

 

[LostAgain]

Well they gave you their criteria for ending the winter season, did they also give the criteria for opening it back up? Did they answer questions, I have about a dozen to ask at our banquet next month.

 

[RuffsNSetters]

Great presentation by the PGC and RGS personnel last night.
It looks like this new RGS chapter will be an active one. A couple HPA members put in countless hours making this event a success so Kudos to them. I'd be willing to bet that their "no pressure" format to the fund raising part of the evening was a great success as folks didn't have to feel obligated to spend a penny beyond the cost of the meal ticket. Lots of smiling faces afterwards and only heard positive remarks & answers to the info provided by the PGC Biologist/Forester/RGS Biologist & employees. I now better understand the criteria used by the PGC (much based on hunter input & surveys along with agency findings) in the decision to close the late season for the upcoming year.:encouragement:

Don't drink the cool aid...Drumming counts, banding woodcock, brood counts, wnv testing are science....hunter surveys are not scientific, especially when everyone I know sends in -- reports. If you call yourself a biologist, act like one. Did the biologist talk about brood counts, our pgc woodcock banding program, or drumming counts? Of course they did not, they do not do it. What an injustice...smiles, pats on the back, drinks, and we are all good

 

[htephil]

Don't drink the cool aid...Drumming counts, banding woodcock, brood counts, wnv testing are science....hunter surveys are not scientific, especially when everyone I know sends in -- reports. If you call yourself a biologist, act like one. Did the biologist talk about brood counts, our pgc woodcock banding program, or drumming counts? Of course they did not, they do not do it. What an injustice...smiles, pats on the back, drinks, and we are all good

Actually they did talk about brood counts/predation/etc. I found it interesting that 22% of birds harvested in late season tested positive for WNV so they have an immunity to it and would've been beneficial as breeders in the Spring. I enjoyed the evening and will be interested to see what develops with this new chapter of RGS rolling up its sleeves and getting involved.
Again, Kudos to the HPA guys who were instrumental in making this happen.

 

[RyanR]

Don't drink the cool aid...Drumming counts, banding woodcock, brood counts, wnv testing are science....hunter surveys are not scientific, especially when everyone I know sends in -- reports. If you call yourself a biologist, act like one. Did the biologist talk about brood counts, our pgc woodcock banding program, or drumming counts? Of course they did not, they do not do it. What an injustice...smiles, pats on the back, drinks, and we are all good

Actually they did talk about brood counts/predation/etc. I found it interesting that 22% of birds harvested in late season tested positive for WNV so they have an immunity to it and would've been beneficial as breeders in the Spring. I enjoyed the evening and will be interested to see what develops with this new chapter of RGS rolling up its sleeves and getting involved.
Again, Kudos to the HPA guys who were instrumental in making this happen.

That's very interesting and potentially good news. Sounds like it was an enjoyable & educational evening.

 

[Potters finest]

Actually they did talk about brood counts/predation/etc. I found it interesting that 22% of birds harvested in late season tested positive for WNV so they have an immunity to it and would've been beneficial as breeders in the Spring. I enjoyed the evening and will be interested to see what develops with this new chapter of RGS rolling up its sleeves and getting involved.
Again, Kudos to the HPA guys who were instrumental in making this happen.

Thanks for the updates fellas, did they say what % of birds harvest in early season tested positive?

 

[LostAgain]

Why would there be any difference in positive tests from the fall to the winter? The only difference would be related sampling size, unless there were a lot of young birds killed in the fall that werent exposed to WNV. There should be no difference in adult grouse.

 

[Potters finest]

The only difference would be related sampling size, unless there were a lot of young birds killed in the fall that werent exposed to WNV. There should be no difference in adult grouse.

:encouragement:I agree! Just a question to see if those things you mentioned are happening...if a higher % of birds with WNV are killed in the early season shouldn't we close that section of the season? :smileys-fish-805431 just joking

 

[LostAgain]

But if you only present part of the data in order to sway people to your way of thinking, most people will jump at it. I on the other hand always have questions of the data. Now here is another question for that same data, how many of those birds will be lost to predation or other means before nesting season? Once the season closes Dec 24th, there is still four months to go until they sit on nests, those four months are the toughest of the year to survive. Think about it, they are suggesting to people those grouse not killed by hunters will now be able to survive one third of the year with few to no losses.

 

[htephil]

I can't recount all the data presented to give a completely accurate report so I won't try. I do agree with their position that by late season most all the birds are mature and few will be taken by predation as most occurs during nesting- first four months of life by mid-size predators such as raccoons/skunks/etc. Hawks will take a few but mature grouse are pretty good avoiding them given good habitat. The biologists for both the PGC and RGS welcome inquiries via email & phone calls to receive input and share information so touching base with them would be more beneficial getting answers then speculating here. The PGC Forester for this region was on hand to answer questions and show current timber cuts on maps which was good addition to the evening.

 

[LostAgain]

Phil, not picking on you, appreciate your input.

The two biggest times for hawk predation is the spring and fall migration. The spring migration just happens to be timed with the peak of mating for grouse in April.

Wonder with the recommendation by RGS, if they will also recommend the same shortened season for the states surrounding Pa, some which run until Feb 28th.

Showing cuts on maps is fine, but was he asked how much more was being cut since the Grouse plan was adapted? And if not meeting goals for his region, why not. Both a big bullet point by the GC biologist and RGS biologist was habitat, if there is no work on expanding habitat, how can we ever expect any improvement. Remember cutting peaked on GL's in 2011 when the grouse plan was adopted, and has dropped off every year since then. How much cutting during those few peak years can be attributed to the gypsy moth infestation in NC Pa, where the GC had to come in and cut fast or lose all that value in timber?

Since habitat is the key and grouse covers dont become prime for 8-10 years, we are looking at a long way out before seeing any improvement in grouse numbers and a return of the late season.

 

[htephil]

No offense taken as all discussion shared in respectful posting is good for thinking about different aspects & opinions. I personally didn't take the time Saturday night to speak to the Forester as the crowd was large for a first time event to start up a new chapter but I did look at the maps of cuttings in Loyalsock Stat Forest. No doubt that available funding impacts the amount of habitat work being completed and also the acceptance of the PGC being responsible for programs concerning all species of wildlife so lots of unseen factors weigh in on completion of these projects. Hope many will get to one of the RGS venues in the near future.