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Lot of variable's you put in there which is only your way of thinking. You cant predict when a deer will be anywhere. I said I shot that deer on the FIRST day of the season which is Saturday and Monday is never coming back. The fact that I shot it on Saturday the opening day is everything as it was my good fortune. And you are right opening day is Saturday after Thanksgiving. Right place right time I guess.
No your spin was you shot it on the first day (Saturday) when asked about waiting til Monday ( 3rd day) and it would not have been around. So if the opener was Monday and you shot it, than on Wed ( the third day) it would not be around. My spin is just to unravel your spin.
I can predict there will be deer in my yard today and there will be more of them when I plant my garden. So yes I can predict when deer will be somewhere. I can also predict deer will bed down, get up, crap, pee, go find some food, and than bed down and repeat as long as they live. Deer are predictable creatures of habit. They are not mystical creatures of great and growing wisdom. Waugh!
 

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Well my suggestion would be to move the opening day to Dec 1 no matter the day of the week it falls on. But But but I know the people that work and the kids that have school and all the other reasons. Please note I did call them reasons and not excuses.

So my back up suggestion would be to start the season one whole week later. Kind of a simple concept, I think.
I don't see harvest changing on public or private land because of the one whole week without deer hunting. It also would give the female bred bears additional time to den up but that is a minor consideration. Waugh!
My suggestion is keep the season dates the way they are as prescribed by the PGC for all species. Works for most willing to make it work for them.
 

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What would change if the season started a week later? Have your Saturday opener. Just don't rush hunters. Bear season is over and the woods get settled back. Is there any excuse that would not fall into your crying category now? Waugh!
Let’s start the season two weeks eairlier and be finished by thanksgiving, then I won’t matter
 

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Let’s start the season two weeks eairlier and be finished by thanksgiving, then I won’t matter
Oh lets not start all the crying about rifles in the rut. Archery equipment would gather dust quicker than a flushing grouse. Waugh!
 

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No your spin was you shot it on the first day (Saturday) when asked about waiting til Monday ( 3rd day) and it would not have been around. So if the opener was Monday and you shot it, than on Wed ( the third day) it would not be around. My spin is just to unravel your spin.
I can predict there will be deer in my yard today and there will be more of them when I plant my garden. So yes I can predict when deer will be somewhere. I can also predict deer will bed down, get up, crap, pee, go find some food, and than bed down and repeat as long as they live. Deer are predictable creatures of habit. They are not mystical creatures of great and growing wisdom. Waugh!
You spin things different than me. Seems all you do is spin. You are right about one thing I shot it Saturday and it was not there Monday. Deer are not predictable creatures of habit. My spin is to debunk your spin which like I said you seem to spin a lot
 

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Oh lets not start all the crying about rifles in the rut. Archery equipment would gather dust quicker than a flushing grouse. Waugh!
Let’s start the season two weeks eairlier and be finished by thanksgiving, then I won’t matter
That would be an awesome start date for rifle season. Get in line with a lot of the midwest states.
 

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So what are you eluding too? That getting to camp and doing anything other then hunting should be mlre highly prioritized by the pgc? Why does anyone not being able to take off during rifle mean that they should never be allowed to take off your hunt, or it will be held against them? Why do you expect the pgc to favor a specific demographic whose issue is not that they can't hunt or that they don't have ability to, it's they want tp relax and unwind instead of hunting?
I believe he is eluding to the fact that the younger guys prefer the Saturday opener because they don’t have to take off work yet have no problem taking off work for archery. In other words they prioritize archery over rifle hunting so they don’t care if the change ruined the pre season traditions of rifle hunters because it wasn’t important enough for them to take off to hunt in the first place.

And the questions still stand. . . Rifle hunters controlling the population has nothing to do with relaxing at camp.
And guess what neither does a Saturday opener, it’s not like so many more people are hunting the opener or killing so many more deer because the season opened on Saturday. The rifle harvest numbers are pretty similar with the buck average being down 1.8% for the post Saturday opener while the doe harvest is up 11.4% predominantly due to the reopening of doe the first week that skews the average up compared to the 2014 to 2018 years when it was closed.

And extending the season didn’t have to be the two days preceding the current season, it could be done at any other time and still meet the harvest goals. Adding two days at the beginning of the season isn’t extra opportunity when most people don’t use the extra time anyway.

Rifle hunting pressure is so high because so many people are crammed into a short period of time and it takes a week or two after the season ends for the deer to settle back into their normal routine. So adding a couple more days to the beginning just makes the deer skittish earlier and shifts the harvest slightly earlier with very little impact on the total harvest overall.

There were plenty of other options to really give rifle hunters extra opportunity,
  • an additional week starting before Thanksgiving and running for three weeks in conjunction with bear season.
  • one weekend in early October or November where rifle hunting is legal for buck and doe.
  • the Jr/Sr rifle season be open to anyone.
  • an extra weekend or two of rifle in late January or Early February after flintlock.

Some kind of extra rifle season anywhere on the calendar other than anytime directly connected to the existing rifle season to spread the pressure and harvest out over time. They can even limit it to straight wall cartridges as a lower impact season if over harvest is a concern. As of now all they did was take away the traditions while paying lip service to “extra opportunity” yet giving us little to no tangible benefit for it.

Part of what I love about rifle season is all of the camaraderie that happens outside of hunting. I’m not a fan of the Saturday opener because of loss of opening day traditions in exchange for the so called “extra opportunity”. We now hunt Saturday through Monday or Tuesday and kill just as many deer as we did before the removal of the concurrent season. The difference is that now there is very little time to just hang out at camp with everyone, I already go up Friday night and get right to hunting first thing Saturday morning almost every other weekend in the fall during archery, rifle season was special because it was different. If they were going to change it I’d have wanted something much more worthwhile than an extra evening sit to undo 50+ years of hunting traditions.
 

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The biggest opposition that I hear to the Saturday opener has nothing to do at all with hunting. It has to do with family being in from out of town for the Thanksgiving holiday. Guys don't want to leave to go to a camp or go out hunting and leave family sitting at home who they might only get to see a couple times a year.
They were still going to camp on Friday or Saturday anyway when it was a Monday opener. They sure as heck weren't visiting with their relatives when they were buying ammo, visiting the other camps, supporting the firehouse dinner, etc over that weekend while waiting for Monday.

Almost every guy I know that belongs to a camp usually left that Friday afternoon anyway (because they either packed that day and then left or they worked and left right after work. The rest left first thing Saturday morning. Not a whole lot of extra visiting going on.
 
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