True. It may not have been around on the 3rd day of the season. But if the season started on Monday it most likely would have been around unless someone hit it with their vehicle driving to camp from the VFW Saturday night. Or it could have been harvested during the archery season by the same guy that missed it with a rifle. What if is a game we all play. The fact you shot it on the opening day which was a Saturday does not change anything. Opening day is opening day and the hunters are out in numbers hunting a herd that will decrease in size each day of the season. Waugh!Or it may not have been around......just saying
Pennsylvania State Senate
MEMORANDUM
Posted: | March 8, 2023 01:48 PM |
|---|---|
From: | Senator Lisa M. Boscola |
To: | All Senate members |
Subject: | Changing Opening Day of PA Deer Rifle Season |
| In the near future, I intend to introduce legislation that will permanently move the opening day of Pennsylvania Deer Rifle Season back to the Monday after Thanksgiving. The annual deer rifle season is special in Pennsylvania. My office received a number of letters and phone calls regarding the impact of moving opening day to the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Local business owners and hunters seem aligned that the move of opening day has hurt businesses and many of the traditions associated with the longstanding original opening day. Currently, deer season begins the Saturday after Thanksgiving. It has been this way since a change in 2019. This legislation will not affect Sunday hunting, nor will it determine the duration of the season. It is my hope that you will join me in supporting legislation to change opening day back. |
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He said reduce not remove. So if you don't think the PGC wants the herd reduced what is it you think they want with extended and concurrent seasons. I be thinking since hunter numbers are dropping and the herd is once again expanding. Lonzo is spot on. Waugh!Ok, I'll bite.
If what you say is true, what would be the root cause? What would motivate the PGC to do that? How will the harvest numbers show this?
I'm honestly attempting to have a conversation about this, and try to understand your point of view. We obviously have significant disparity in the views of hunters in this state. So I also ask what is causing you to believe that the pgc would be actively working to remove the resource from public land?
And neither side of this argument has any room to throw stones at the other on that regard because it goes both ways very hard.Pa whining hunters are their own worst enemy... = more crying.
Well I do know the clock changes the first week of November for hunters, but it don't change for the deer. First light and last light has been proven to be the most natural movement by deer. I don't even live in PA during the month of October. However when I return in November I can't miss the guy ( sometimes 3 guys) that hunt the property across the street from my house, they park about 40 yards from my bedroom. I hear them coming and going during archery and sometimes see them coming as I leave to rifle hunt. This year it was pouring down rain during rifle and I stayed home until later than normal so I got to see them come for an hour and leave. I went hunting for a few hours and came home early with my deer. I seen him ( only the one guy) arrive before sunset and helped him load his deer just after dark. It could be done. The only drawbacks are some places a gun can't be used where archery gear can and hunters adapting to hunting with the same mind set. Waugh!Not really. Its a lot easier to get out after work with the bow in October than it is at the end of November/December. October 15 sunset in western PA is 6:40 - so legal shooting time ends 7:10 .... November 30 sunset is 4:54 so quitting time is 5:24.
If I work from home and work till 4:00 and have all my stuff ready to go - I can be in the woods and up a tree with my stand hung by 5:15 at the latest (if i know where I'm going what tree I'm climbing and no one else beat me there). Fast forward to gun season and there's just not enough daylight left at that point (even if you're going to hunt off the ground) to really make it worth it
It's ALL estimated numbers....no matter what the proven formula is....it is NOT the actual numbers.Ok, buck kill was down, why? What is that information telling us? How many factors were there that could lead to a reduced harvest total?
..........
Well many factors:
Not reporting
processing own deer and not reporting
The weather was wet
The weather was too dry
The weather was to cold
The weather wasn't cold enough
There wasn't snow
Donald Trump
There wasn't enough snow
There was too much snow
The buck was too small
People are looking for a bigger buck like they see all over the internet.
The crossbow guys are killing them all
The archery guys are killing them all
The rut was over
The rut didn't begin
The rut was in full swing but the hot doe was somewhere else
The buck smelled the hunter before the hunter saw the buck
COVID19
It just isn't important to some
They shot a doe(1)
They shot another doe(2)
They shot yet another doe(3)
Their kid shot a doe
Their kid shot another doe
Their kid shot yet another doe
The economy
They missed the buck
They could count the points (not enough)
They couldn't see the points
Biden
All the bucks are on private land
It doesn't matter to me personally just like to discuss the hunting situation in general because I am interested in it. Bot my property 10 yrs ago and no one has shot a doe on it yet. I manage it for above carrying capacity by doing all the things that the habitat gurus do. I do hunt archery on public some but only for Mature Buck, will probably run up to 10 cameras this summer looking for and usually find a couple of shooters.Ok, buck kill was down, why? What is that information telling us? How many factors were there that could lead to a reduced harvest total?
Now, doe tags, hoe many should have been issued? Would reducing the number of available tags improved the public land if folks were/are still concentrated on public land? How much has adding days impacted the harvest totals? Are they higher? Many use the fact that the harvest totals have not gone up as a justification that was no reason to move the opener to Saturday. Shooting 2 deer before you have tag them is a moot point to argue as deer = dead deer. It doesn't matter when they are tagged. How much did the harvest increase when the concurrent season started? On the deer/psm, distribution is never going to be even statewide. There are going to be pockets of extremes high/low and pockets of pretty dang close, but it will never be evenly distributed. Private land owners can manage for what ever b/d ratio they won't but unless they high fence it'll fall somewhere inline with the state average. If hunters around you don't shoot more doe just because the pgc issues more tags then why does adding tags matter? If hunters are tagging out in archery, and as so many are claiming that folks only hunt the first two days now, and now no one is in the woods anymore, this should be a self correcting issue if one exists? Should it not? I'm still having trouble understanding how you connect what you are saying to how you believe that the pgc is doing this by design?
For everyone of those guys that don't want to leave their family - there's another that's happy because their family's in from out of town and can now hunt with them.The biggest opposition that I hear to the Saturday opener has nothing to do at all with hunting. It has to do with family being in from out of town for the Thanksgiving holiday. Guys don't want to leave to go to a camp or go out hunting and leave family sitting at home who they might only get to see a couple times a year.
Well rifle hunters do most of the herd control the PGC needs. So there is that. Waugh!So what are you eluding too? That getting to camp and doing anything other then hunting should be mlre highly prioritized by the pgc? Why does anyone not being able to take off during rifle mean that they should never be allowed to take off your hunt, or it will be held against them? Why do you expect the pgc to favor a specific demographic whose issue is not that they can't hunt or that they don't have ability to, it's they want tp relax and unwind instead of hunting?
No doubt there are some. I simply stated the biggest argument that I hear. But with less than 10% of the population being hunters, I know for fact that there is not a hunter in return for everyone who is upset about it. The factual math simply does not bear that out regardless of what some want to make it appear.For everyone of those guys that don't want to leave their family - there's another that's happy because their family's in from out of town and can now hunt with them.
Doesn't affect me. All my close family live very close to me and I see them all year thank goodness. Still, if that wasn't the case, I would choose family over hunting every time and we have no doubt lost participation due to that very reason.
What would change if the season started a week later? Have your Saturday opener. Just don't rush hunters. Bear season is over and the woods get settled back. Is there any excuse that would not fall into your crying category now? Waugh!,,,and for the people that don't have family?
This is just a big whining, crying circle of excuses not to expand on MORE opportunities.....it's almost like a bad jealousy which comes down to -instead of worrying about what someone else does or does not do...they need to deal with it, make the most of it and move on.
Or maybe everyone is just too ignorant to the other options being pressed to the state of hunting....I'll call it IGNORANCE...plain and simple.
Pa whining hunters are their own worst enemy....more opportunities = more crying.
Ok again, bad wording on my part. Reduce.He said reduce not remove. So if you don't think the PGC wants the herd reduced what is it you think they want with extended and concurrent seasons. I be thinking since hunter numbers are dropping and the herd is once again expanding. Lonzo is spot on. Waugh!
So what is thw conversation then? What would you do to make everyone happy?
Even in the years immediately following HR in the supposed worst of times, harvest #'s never went below 300,000..... this was also right around the time I was coming into serious hunting age. I don't ever remember days with out seeing deer, all on public land.
Point being that the PGC is managing the resource. Doing what we pay them to do, yet they bare the beast of burden for everyone's reason why they didn't get a deer, or times changing and so on.
Also just because an individual doesn't have access to a piece of private does not mean that it's not being hammered. I know of quite a few places that are private that get hunted far heavier than the public land bordering it. A few guys I've talked said they won't even touch that public because it gets hammered, yet in 5 years I've never ran into another hubting it. And yes that's in rifle season.
Quite frankly, leaving the season structure as it is, but moving it a week later would solve alot. The problem for a lot of people is not starting on a Saturday, but having it start on the Saturday after Thanksgiving. But hey, if they want to "whine" because family is important to them then they must not be true hunters...
You are absolutely right the Saturday opener has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with camp people. We all make personal choices on how we spend time outdoors. The Monday opener is never coming back and most have moved on and adapted. You either stay home and enjoy the holidays with family or you go hunting. Very simple. A few on here trash the Saturday opener but that does not speak for all the hunters who make it work for them.The biggest opposition that I hear to the Saturday opener has nothing to do at all with hunting. It has to do with family being in from out of town for the Thanksgiving holiday. Guys don't want to leave to go to a camp or go out hunting and leave family sitting at home who they might only get to see a couple times a year.
And the questions still stand. . . Rifle hunters controlling the population has nothing to do with relaxing at camp.Well rifle hunters do most of the herd control the PGC needs. So there is that. Waugh!
This is not the argument that I'm hearing. The argument that guys don't want to leave to go to camp would be the same argument for the camp guys be it Saturday or Monday opener........The biggest opposition that I hear to the Saturday opener has nothing to do at all with hunting. It has to do with family being in from out of town for the Thanksgiving holiday. Guys don't want to leave to go to a camp or go out hunting and leave family sitting at home who they might only get to see a couple times a year.
I guess I'm not as heck bent as you are on tying everything to camp owners. I no longer own a camp so am out of that loop. My info comes form people who I work with and from my son's activites. Many of those activities involve Saturday participation and quite a few people choose the activity over hunting, or complain about only getting to go for a couple hours. A couple guys I work with quit with family in from out of town.You are absolutely right the Saturday opener has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with camp people. We all make personal choices on how we spend time outdoors. The Monday opener is never coming back and most have moved on and adapted. You either stay home and enjoy the holidays with family or you go hunting. Very simple. A few on here trash the Saturday opener but that does not speak for all the hunters who make it work for them.
As I said earlier, I have moved on and do not want to see it changed. But ignoring other people's problems and pretending they don't exist, and slamming them for itis as ignorant and "whiny" as some on here want to throw stones at others about. Saturday is here to stay, but that does not mean it is perfect for everyone. I still maintain that keeping it Saturday, but moving it back one week would solve alot and work the best for everyone involved.
Good for you. I didn't state it as fact, just as what I've been hearing.This is not the argument that I'm hearing. The argument that guys don't want to leave to go to camp would be the same argument for the camp guys be it Saturday or Monday opener........
Lot of variable's you put in there which is only your way of thinking. You cant predict when a deer will be anywhere. I said I shot that deer on the FIRST day of the season which is Saturday and Monday is never coming back. The fact that I shot it on Saturday the opening day is everything as it was my good fortune. And you are right opening day is Saturday after Thanksgiving. Right place right time I guess.True. It may not have been around on the 3rd day of the season. But if the season started on Monday it most likely would have been around unless someone hit it with their vehicle driving to camp from the VFW Saturday night. Or it could have been harvested during the archery season by the same guy that missed it with a rifle. What if is a game we all play. The fact you shot it on the opening day which was a Saturday does not change anything. Opening day is opening day and the hunters are out in numbers hunting a herd that will decrease in size each day of the season. Waugh!
Well my suggestion would be to move the opening day to Dec 1 no matter the day of the week it falls on. But But but I know the people that work and the kids that have school and all the other reasons. Please note I did call them reasons and not excuses.Ok again, bad wording on my part. Reduce.
So what is thw conversation then? What would you do to make everyone happy?
Even in the years immediately following HR in the supposed worst of times, harvest #'s never went below 300,000..... this was also right around the time I was coming into serious hunting age. I don't ever remember days with out seeing deer, all on public land.
Point being that the PGC is managing the resource. Doing what we pay them to do, yet they bare the beast of burden for everyone's reason why they didn't get a deer, or times changing and so on.
Also just because an individual doesn't have access to a piece of private does not mean that it's not being hammered. I know of quite a few places that are private that get hunted far heavier than the public land bordering it. A few guys I've talked said they won't even touch that public because it gets hammered, yet in 5 years I've never ran into another hubting it. And yes that's in rifle season.
So my back up suggestion would be to start the season one whole week later. Kind of a simple concept, I think.
I don't see harvest changing on public or private land because of the one whole week without deer hunting. It also would give the female bred bears additional time to den up but that is a minor consideration. Waugh!
Im not heck bent on anything. Sick of hearing all the whining from the other side so I respond from the other side. You assume things about me that are not fact. I always hunted the days I could get off work regardless if it was the first day. I tie nothing to camp owners they can do whatever works for them. All I say is the PGC sets the season and start dates. Works for some but not all. Nobody is ever going to be totally happy. If a guy quits hunting that is his business and decision.I guess I'm not as heck bent as you are on tying everything to camp owners. I no longer own a camp so am out of that loop. My info comes form people who I work with and from my son's activites. Many of those activities involve Saturday participation and quite a few people choose the activity over hunting, or complain about only getting to go for a couple hours. A couple guys I work with quit with family in from out of town.
As I said earlier, I have moved on and do not want to see it changed. But ignoring other people's problems and pretending they don't exist, and slamming them for itis as ignorant and "whiny" as some on here want to throw stones at others about. Saturday is here to stay, but that does not mean it is perfect for everyone. I still maintain that keeping it Saturday, but moving it back one week would solve alot and work the best for everyone involved.
221 - 240 of 509 Posts
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