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Pennsylvania State Senate

14758 Views 508 Replies 52 Participants Last post by  CMP70306
MEMORANDUM

Posted:​
March 8, 2023 01:48 PM
From:​
Senator Lisa M. Boscola
To:​
All Senate members
Subject:​
Changing Opening Day of PA Deer Rifle Season
In the near future, I intend to introduce legislation that will permanently move the opening day of Pennsylvania Deer Rifle Season back to the Monday after Thanksgiving.

The annual deer rifle season is special in Pennsylvania. My office received a number of letters and phone calls regarding the impact of moving opening day to the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Local business owners and hunters seem aligned that the move of opening day has hurt businesses and many of the traditions associated with the longstanding original opening day. Currently, deer season begins the Saturday after Thanksgiving. It has been this way since a change in 2019.

This legislation will not affect Sunday hunting, nor will it determine the duration of the season. It is my hope that you will join me in supporting legislation to change opening day back.
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Lisa Boscola was underage drinking at a picnic for local pool lifeguards at my neighbors house when I was a kid,then years later while in office got a DUI locally,true story
I like her already. Waugh!
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Set the date at Dec 1st no matter the day and run it for 3
weeks. Waugh!
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Still a 33% reduction in weekend days/opportunity.
The pro-Monday crowd loses nothing if it鈥檚 kept Saturday after thanksgiving鈥 or Sunday.
There鈥檚 no way to slice it that changing it back to Monday isn鈥檛 taking hunting days away from everyone so that some people can have days they don鈥檛 want to hunt be 鈥減rotected鈥 from anyone else hunting.
Not if you end it on a Sunday. Waugh!
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Yet the week following rifle up to Xmas the only hunting that can be done is small game plus the month of February. . . .
Need a bill to ok that additional Sunday鈥
I thought you said you did not want the legiscritters involved. But my solution would be to just take one from the longest deer season. :p Waugh!
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1 day dude.
and are you running dogs in the same area you鈥檙e gonna hunt deer 36 hours later?
Yes he does and so do I. Waugh!
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Not really following you here, however I don't. I'm simply pointing out that the small game, while "valid", is inconsequential.because of the fact there is atleast 5 weeks that the only thing you can hunt is small game. Also I'll point out that we have a Saturday start without legislation..........
It's ridiculous how these grown folks are throwing the same kind of tantrums my 2yo son throws when I have to put him in bed. Things change, it's part of life. The herd dynamic and the hunter population and tactics don't really support the old ways of doing things, so they are changing things up to benefit the current conditions and hunters.........
You are entitled to your opinion. . . . .
First things first. I don't think I was replying to your post when I wrote that. Second I find it ridiculously smug to compare fellow hunters to a child. We are all entitled to opinions. I don't care about what day of the week a season starts on nor the days of the week legal to hunt. However starting so close to a holiday ending does have issues for families, give it 15 20 years when you might want to travel to see your 2yo son's son.

What would be so bad as to wait a week and open it on the first of December no matter the day or just open it the second Saturday after Thanksgiving? Like you said things change , that is life. Waugh!
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Lets leave it the way it is. It really works for most hunters. Sorry it doesnt work for you but I sure bet you get out there and hunt. If not you are displaced and it doesnt work for you. So many seasons to hunt and kill a deer that have nothing to do with opening rifle deer season on Monday after Thanksgiving. So glad we got rid of that stupid day. We now have more days to hunt that benefits so many hunters.
No Idea how you came up with it don't work for me. And no Idea why you can't see it would be the same if it opened one week later. Besides I was told things change, it is part of life. Waugh!
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Simple solution!!! YEAR ROUND any form of weapon you prefer.Rifle,Shotgun,Archery,Single shot,semi,slingshot,Flamethrower,Tank,Spear,Barehands,Bearfooted,NO FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS!!!! Sun up to Sunset..Any day that is convenient for you except HOLIDAYS!!!! That goes for anything that walks,crawls,flies,runs,hops that should cover every aspect needed to make everyone happy 鈽犫槧鈽犫槧鈽犫槧鈽
But what happens when the new year starts on a Monday? Waugh!
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From 2007-2021 we didn鈥檛 even START till the Saturday after 1st Monday鈥.

The move was all about increasing opportunities for all hunters, and since hunters are THE management tool, it absolutely had future wildlife management as a factor in the decision.

Like it or not, there鈥檚 an unavoidable drop off coming in the next 5-7 years as the 鈥渂aby boom鈥 generation cycle through the age where most leave hunting. That generation makes up 20% of current active hunters.

The PGC will continue to take steps to add opportunities to make hunting as accessible as possible to as many people as possible because the last thing any of us wants is for harvests to fall below targets due to not enough hunters left (or willing) to do the job that they have to employ more sharpshooters or alternative methods.
Where do you pull your percentages from? Waugh!
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Well you cant gauge succes or failure off of an arbitrary metric like camps closing up early. Increased opportunity doesn't only mean increased length of participation, meaning the question should be did more hunter participate on Saturday and Sunday than on the first two days in years past. Ultimately we won't ever know that as we have no metric for participation, harvest numbers don't reflect participation.

What some hunters are feeling with the change is real, obviously. However, the idea that the PGC is somehow doing this at their own detriment(i.e. monetary income) is the ridiculous part. I can't speak for everyone by I emphathize with the folks who do feel they are at a loss, I too hunt from our family camp and do feel rushed especially since we do split turkey day Thursday and friday. It's gotten better since the change as I've adapted my tactics, planning for the rush and getting the camp work done in the weeks prior to the season start. That said it's not the PGC's job to manage everyone's time, or provide opportunities to spend money out on the town Or have mlre time at camp. I know it's ceappy to say it as much as it is hear it, but its the truth. The tradition that is being preserved is hunting not the tradition of what folks do before they hunt. I know guys are passionate about this and truthfully I'm thankful for that as I can respect the passion and consistency, but is that really the hill they are choosing to die on? I will find the time to hunt whenever they say it's legal because that's who I am, so the change was really for me, though I support it because it means I have the ability to hunt more and i will and do. This was for the casual guy, those that can't "or wont" take the vacation time, and I feel that's ok because we need those casual hunters too.
I am not a camp guy. Been to a few over the years mostly the second week. Been to one for the opener and found it not my cup of whiskey. I go hunting to relax and enjoy the outdoors not to socialize, I save that for the bar rooms.
Not sure how to measure participation other than by harvest. The whole harvest guess the PGC makes was based off the first day and the two Saturdays. Some will say otherwise but it all boiled down to those 3 days.
Comparing Saturday and Sunday to the Monday and Tuesdays of the past is a joke. Try comparing the first day to the first day, Saturday to Monday. When you do that comparison I think you will find not many more if any participated because of the day the season started.
So using the harvest math to reflect if more were out hunting on 2 days compared to one is kind of silly. But here we are with a increased harvest guess comparing apples to oranges. Using the 3 day math to do math on 5 days of harvest.

I know you said harvest numbers don't reflect participation. I disagree.
However I would agree that using the harvest guess to prove more are participating on Saturday than did On Mondays past is a reach. But when has that stopped anyone. Waugh!
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Waynzee do you hunt on the new opener or do you wait to Monday? Just curious as I am as you say the Saturday opener guy who crys all the time. Real curious as to when you decide to hunt. Me and all us criers get out and hunt on the days the PGC tells us we can. Shot a real nice 8 point on my property this year on the first day of deer season. May not have seen that deer if I waited until Monday.
Why wouldn't he hunt on the first day if he had the time? When the opener was on Monday did you always wait until the first Saturday? I would think most hunters get out as often as they could.
If you were on public land that deer you got on your land may have been shot before you even knew it existed. Why would a deer be gone from your land in 2 days unless you allow others to hunt it. Waugh!
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Pick a date, that鈥檚 the opener, no matter what day of the week it falls on.
December the 1st and run it for 3 weeks. Don't close small game for deer season so everyone has more time to hunt. Waugh!
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License sales figures and census data.
Do you doubt the coming cliff?
95% of hunters leave the sport one way or another by 75 years old.
our current average hunter age is 54.
thats 10 years greater than the national average of 44.
Can鈥檛 stop the progression of time. So the only option is to ramp efforts at recruiting and reactivation鈥. Or do nothing, watch hunter numbers crash, then wonder why they have to bring in more sharpshooters and drop contraception all over the woods.
No I don't doubt the coming drop in hunter numbers. But Question the 20% you used. As far as averages go they usually change with time. And times are changing. I come from a family of 9, However all 9 of us only have a total of 10 offspring. Point being families are smaller. So we have less to recruit from to make up the hunters we are losing.
The day of the week the season starts is not going to change that.
When a older hunter quits or passes the average age gets younger. When a new youth joins our ranks the age again gets younger. Point being the average age means very little to the number of hunters we have and again it means nothing about the average age of hunters.
If you used mentored youth in the average I would suspect our average age to be closer to the national average you posted ( without checking your numbers for fact or fiction) I take your word for it, as it matters little to the topic of what day of the week the season starts.

Season length and tags issued will sustain us as long as hunters are willing to harvest deer. The true need for sharpshooters in the majority of the state is not even on the radar as a management tool other than in areas where the anti hunters hold sway. Cost alone keeps hunters as the least expensive, best option. ( See red tag)
Contraceptives are a lawyers dream. A nightmare the PGC and the Legislature would like to avoid. But bringing them up from time to time sure helps the HR efforts. Waugh!
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Yes I agree you deserve the clap. :ROFLMAO: Waugh!
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To your point, it should have been worded as harvest number "shouldn't" be used to reflect participation. Because there are other highly influential factors that can affect harvest totals.
I hear you.
However when the most hunters are in the woods with the most effective sporting arm and meet the most number of deer that will exist beyond that point, the harvest will be highest. I don't care when the first day of rifle is, It could be a Wednesday, If hunters are there in mass the harvest will be the greatest. And every day after there are less and less deer along with less hunters to move them. The 1st day has the most hunters and deer in one place, thus harvest is greatest. Followed by the next weekend day and the last day where we have the most participation even with less deer to hunt.
Yes severe bad weather can affect this but not to the extent that any given Wednesday (mid week day) will out harvest the 1st or weekends. Waugh!
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That deer was actually shot 15 minutes before it came by me. Heard 3 shots on the neighbors and then he came from that direction. When i walked up to him he had a hole shot right through the antler beam. Surprised it wasn't blown off. Sure that deer could have been off my property in 2 days. they wander around from property to property here. When the opener was Monday yes I hunted that day if I could get off work, if not I waited until the first Saturday.
So your neighbor can't shoot. Sounds like it would have still been around 3 days later. Maybe with less points but still around. :whistle: Waugh!
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Because most gun hunters only hunt a day and a 1/2. Where most archery hunters hunt every chance they get! Won鈥檛 be long till the archers get 4 months and rifle guys get 3 days 馃槀馃槀馃槀馃槣
If we have a 3 day rifle buck season before the 4 month archery season we will be over run with deer in a few years. Archery hunters can't control the herd. But that 3 day season in the rut would help reduce the number bred. Starting the archery season the Saturday after thanksgiving and running it to march sounds about right. :cool: Waugh!
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Sorry man, you can drive anywhere in the state on Tuesday of rifle and count cars / trucks on one hand out hunting. Drive around on the first Tuesday of archery and if ya got 10 bucks for every truck you鈥檇 be loaded.
Sounds kind of funny that guys don't work on week days during archery, I guess kids also don't have classes during weekdays of archery.

So lets recap. the reason we need a Saturday rifle opener is because people have school or work but by your post it seems they are out mid week in archery season. HMMMMM!

Well the guy catching an hour before or after work sure adds up, I get that. But the same guys can do the same thing during rifle. Waugh!
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Or it may not have been around......just saying:rolleyes:
True. It may not have been around on the 3rd day of the season. But if the season started on Monday it most likely would have been around unless someone hit it with their vehicle driving to camp from the VFW Saturday night. Or it could have been harvested during the archery season by the same guy that missed it with a rifle. What if is a game we all play. The fact you shot it on the opening day which was a Saturday does not change anything. Opening day is opening day and the hunters are out in numbers hunting a herd that will decrease in size each day of the season. Waugh!
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Ok, I'll bite.
If what you say is true, what would be the root cause? What would motivate the PGC to do that? How will the harvest numbers show this?
I'm honestly attempting to have a conversation about this, and try to understand your point of view. We obviously have significant disparity in the views of hunters in this state. So I also ask what is causing you to believe that the pgc would be actively working to remove the resource from public land?
He said reduce not remove. So if you don't think the PGC wants the herd reduced what is it you think they want with extended and concurrent seasons. I be thinking since hunter numbers are dropping and the herd is once again expanding. Lonzo is spot on. Waugh!
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