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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
MEMORANDUM



Posted: February 22, 2013 01:39 PM


From: <span style="font-weight: bold">Senator Charles McIlhinney and Sen. John Blake </span>


To: All Senate members



Subject: Memo #13 Game Commission Officers Retirement Provisions




In the near future, we plan to reintroduce Senate Bill 1397, <span style="font-weight: bold">legislation ensuring Game Commission officers’ retirement provisions are equal to those of their law enforcement officer counterparts.</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">The bill would amend Title 71 (State Government) to include officers of the Pennsylvania Game Commission in the definition of “Enforcement Officers.” These bona fide members of law enforcement do not currently enjoy the same retirement provision – age 50 and 20 years – as do other enforcement officers. Meanwhile, Game Commission officers’ pension contributions are equal to that of their counterparts.</span>

With this proposal being one of fairness and great importance to hundreds of Game Commission Officers, I urge sponsorship of this bill as Senator Blake and I work together to see its introduction, consideration and passage.


http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/Legi...;cosponId=11832
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Your right, we should eliminate all pensions and retirements for everyone everywhere. No need for anyone to have them.

The current WCO system requires payments into the system. it does not offer a earlier retirement age for those in LE. A dangerous situation for the officer, and a potentially costly event for the state.

Then we haven't even begun to address the harm to loved ones and family if the worst should happen. A WCO isn't walking the streets, they are in our favorite haunts that reside in the hills and mountains of this state.

Hunters and trappers might have a choice if they go here or there, but a WCO doesn't. As any of us age, the ability wanes. For a WCO, they don't have those options, if duty calls, they go.
 

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I think it is wrong that they have to contribute to the system. $0 contributions, $0 benefits. Private retirement for all. When you have saved enough to retire, you retire.
 

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Bluetick said:
Your right, we should eliminate all pensions and retirements for everyone everywhere. No need for anyone to have them.

The current WCO system requires payments into the system. it does not offer a earlier retirement age for those in LE. A dangerous situation for the officer, and a potentially costly event for the state.

Then we haven't even begun to address the harm to loved ones and family if the worst should happen. A WCO isn't walking the streets, they are in our favorite haunts that reside in the hills and mountains of this state.

Hunters and trappers might have a choice if they go here or there, but a WCO doesn't. As any of us age, the ability wanes. For a WCO, they don't have those options, if duty calls, they go.
Then they can take a new position. Costly gov't retirements are destroying Europe and are beginning to really hurt states here in the USA. Who will pay for it? It is not an emotional issue. It is a $$$ issue.
 

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There should be no state pensions for any state employee. My tax dollars should not go towards it. Let them save up like most people do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So you will be happy paying more?

Some one some how has to pay into the retirement system. Social Security won't do it. If you want them to do it themselves, they need a higher wage. Most state civil service folks work for less to get the Bennie's.

Most of us would be looking at any job not offering something in retirement as a very short term proposition. That turn over, unless the person didn't care, or was unable to ,move on to something better, gets the expected substandard results due to turnover.

But hey - the easy simplistic position is just to lump everything together and label it bad. The national political parties are rubbing off on us. The black and white mentality is so easy to follow - no thought required.

Not every public retirement or pension system is equal. Then there is the issue of lumping all public systems under one umbrella when they are run by every level of government. Then there are the issues of unions, local and federal laws that pertain to it and other factors.


But the issue is bringing up our Game WCO's to the level of every other LE person in the state. That and the ability for them to retire earlier.
 

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Bluetick said:
Hunters and trappers might have a choice if they go here or there, but a WCO doesn't. As any of us age, the ability wanes. For a WCO, they don't have those options, if duty calls, they go.
When it comes to employment, we all choose to sign the dotted line knowing what we are getting into. We all age, and there are many, many jobs that become tougher with age. And there are many, many jobs that aging employees can compromise the health and safety of the employee and the health and safety of those around them.

As far as when duty calls, they go. Same for all employees. We all have a choice, go to work or quit and find something else to do.

Nothing against LE. They have a tough job. Point is there are many tough jobs out there and most that are not public, work till normal retirement ages. Adding another group to a broken system to bring everyone into alignment doesn't fix the long term solvency of the system.
 

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GRock said:
There should be no state pensions for any state employee. My tax dollars should not go towards it. Let them save up like most people do.
I don't want to pay into SS every week, but they make me. It won't be there for me when I retire so why should I contribute now. If I had that money everyweek I could have a much better retirement than I'll ever have if I were to just receive SS. I don't like money taken out of MY check to pay for deadbeats sitting at home collecting welfare, but don't have a choice there either. Some things just aren't fair.
 

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GRock said:
There should be no state pensions for any state employee. My tax dollars should not go towards it. Let them save up like most people do.
I think most Government employees would be fine with that if they were given a wage that were comparable with the same level of education and responsibility within the private sector.

Most of the professional level state employees could have gone into the private sector and made a lot more money than they make as a state employee. But, they elected to do a Government job because of the benefits and retirement package instead of having a MUCH bigger paycheck, news vehicles and a large home in the ritzy part of town. That was a decision they made based on the FACTS as they have been for many decades. Others choose to go the private sector way because they wanted the big bucks, new homes and cars and to manage their own pension potential. That was their decision based on the facts of the past decades.

Now that those who choose the private sector route are finding that things aren’t all filled with the roses they had dreamed of they want to change the game for those that spent their lives working for less so they would have something in their retirement years. To me that seem pretty ironic that those who took the route they wanted would now decide, mid stream, it would suit them better to take from those that perhaps made a better decision all those many years ago when they decided to spend decades working for less but having a little more in retirement.

But, all the WCOs are asking is that they get the same retirement opinions ALL other state law enforcement personnel have been getting for a long, long time. It doesn’t even equate to one penny more in their final retirement package. All it does is allow them to retire, but with less month income for the rest of their lives, at a slightly earlier age; an age that makes much more sense for law Enforcement Officers.

Dick Bodenhorn
 

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I don't agree with Dick about everything, but I certainly agree with him here. Every LEO has surely earned every cent of pension that they get in retirement, same as military personnel. We can't thank these folks enough, let alone bash them for what they do receive just because times are a little hard right now.
The "me" mentality of today makes me want to vomit. And the "no pensions for any state employee" is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on here.

Hope this bill passes. Good luck with it BT.
 

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Bluetick said:
SMost state civil service folks work for less to get the Bennie's.
Bluetick, you are living in the past. Most people I know have not received raises in years. In fact, many in the private sector have seen pay cuts and layoffs.

Gone are the days where the government employees made less. And if they want to make more, they should consider working more than 35 hours a week.
 

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kudu58 said:
I don't agree with Dick about everything, but I certainly agree with him here. Every LEO has surely earned every cent of pension that they get in retirement, same as military personnel. We can't thank these folks enough, let alone bash them for what they do receive just because times are a little hard right now.
The "me" mentality of today makes me want to vomit. And the "no pensions for any state employee" is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on here.

Hope this bill passes. Good luck with it BT.
Don't complain about insolvent government. You are adding more employees to a broken system in the name of fairness.

As of 2010, an entry level WCO started at $39,000. They max out at $62,000.

If you live in PGH or southeastern, you might be below the average income. But if you live anywhere else in the state, you will be making more than the average private sector employee with an equivalent education.
 

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Don't know that it applys to WCO's, but based on PSU workers in the state system and PADOT workers, private sector workers in the same fields work far more hours per year and are more productive, yet cost far less.
Sooner or later this stuff is going to come to roost.
 

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So if WCO's have it so good, why aren't all of you doing it for a living? Heck you've just about got me convinced to change professions. Think I'm just gonna stroll on out there and become a WCO, put in my time until I reach the maximum pay rate, which I'm certain will only take 6 months or so, then simply get myself assigned to the district of the state with the lowest median income so I can feel like I am doing way better than everybody else, finish out my time without getting injured or killed on the job and live out the rest of my life in the lap of luxury to everyone's else detriment. Sounds like a plan. Where do I sign up?

Give me a break...
 

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So give them a raise. Having all of these federal and state gov't workers retiring in their 50's and then living another 30 years is not sustainable and will destroy the country. Already happening in Europe and several states here at home.
When people died at 65 it wasn't so bad. Now, things need adjusted.
 

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kudu58 said:
So if WCO's have it so good, why aren't all of you doing it for a living? Heck you've just about got me convinced to change professions. Think I'm just gonna stroll on out there and become a WCO, put in my time until I reach the maximum pay rate, which I'm certain will only take 6 months or so, then simply get myself assigned to the district of the state with the lowest median income so I can feel like I am doing way better than everybody else, finish out my time without getting injured or killed on the job and live out the rest of my life in the lap of luxury to everyone's else detriment. Sounds like a plan. Where do I sign up?

Give me a break...

Your logic is beyond flawed and I'm not sure why I am entertaining it. I'd probably be better off sending you a calculator so you can compute what happens when expenditures exceed revenues.

But let us focus on your most absurd statement:

"Every LEO has surely earned every cent of pension that they get in retirement, same as military personnel." Really? Every single one? Well according to Kudu58, every single one of them has operated at maximum efficiency and thus deserves to be fully compensated.

But let us further expose your feel-good, rainbow and unicorn logic. You ask why we are not working as a WCO for a living. Among many of the possible answers is that there is an overabundance of capable candidates for the job. Take a look at the number of qualified applicants to the amount of job openings. This is a lesson in supply and demand.

So with this overabundance of candidates, your suggestion is to increase the compensation package associated with the job? Yes, that will correct the off-kilter ratio.

Lastly, you and your union/pension brethren are fixated on arbitrary cut-offs for retirement. 20 years of service that is the number!!! How about 19 years? Or 21 years? Or 23 years? Or how about this novel idea, when you have saved enough to retire, that is the correct amount of years? I challenge you to defend why 20 years of service is the correct amount and not arbitrary.

Some food for thought.
 

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kudu58 said:
The "me" mentality of today makes me want to vomit. And the "no pensions for any state employee" is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on here.
How dare I care about the financial solvency of my state and nation. What a radical thought. But have no fear, I have a solution. When our governments exceed their revenues, we will generate more via tax increases. And we will repeat the process until be we become the USSA (United Social States of America.)
 

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But that is all good, because our under-compensated state employees should not have to face the economic reality their private sector counterparts stare in the face on daily basis.
 
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