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Discussion Starter #1
I got the news letter today. I too see the need to increase their income from dues revenues, and I to will support the increase. But, asking sporting clubs for lists of their members names / addresses ect, is in my honest opinion, not the way to go, and will only have a detrimental effect on the federation. Having been a board member for the last 10 years of a gun club that pays dues the federation, It will be a hard sell to my membership, and they will be the ones who will eventually make the call on weather or not our club continues to stay in the federation. I would like to know what legitimate guarantee federation supporting clubs will have that the membership lists will not fall, or, be made to hand over by way of a court order, into the hands of the local, state, and federal governments.
Remember , this is the kind of info that Germany and many other countries used (and still use) to disarm their populations, and it is the exact type of info collected by other governments ( UK, Aust,Cananda,ect) after they banned all firearm ownership from their citizens.
It is also the type of info that McCarthy used in his communist witch hunt trials back in the 50s.
What I need to know is this,
#1, what safe guards are in place to protect this info,
and
#2,who will be held legally responsible for the protection of this info, in case it does fall into the wrong hands?

Roland
 

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First, how is this a Gun control Issue?

Second, the Federation is one of the strongest gun rights organizations in the state. That in addition to the other great work they provide to sportsmen and gun owners. They represent us on all issues fur, fin, or round in the chamber.

Ask your question to the PFSC, then get back to use with thier response.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Blue,
The pa federation of sportsman clubs has asked sponsoring clubs ( ALL of the Clubs that belong to and pay dues to the PFSC) to
"please consider submitting names and addresses of all your members to help build a data base capable of obtaining significant sponsors to provide us with some financial stability"
Since most of the Clubs that belong to and pay dues to the PFSC, are sporting in nature, pro hunting, shooting , 2nd amendment, ect,
I am sure that significant sponsors like mayor Bloomberg and his ilk, would be very interested in providing the Federation with some financial stability for ALL the names and addresses of federation supporting gun club, sporting club, members.
The federation has stood up for shooters, hunters and sportsman in the past. I commend and will continue to support them in doing this.
But, When a pro gun, pro sportsman, pro law organization decides its time to compile a data base of peoples names and addresses ( most likely, people who own and use firearms) to sell to any one with the money to buy them, it becomes less about sportsman / sports women / 2nd amendment,, and more about selling out to the highest bidder.
In regards to your question,
First, how is this a Gun control Issue?
Maybe you should ask , how is this in the best interest of gun owners(and their clubs)that belong to the federation. If your answer is, it is not in their best interest, then you already have answer to your question.
I have posted my questions on the Federation forum, and have yet to receive any answers.
Roland
 

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It may be that because member clubs pay dues to the federation according to how many paying members they have (at least that is the was it used to be) they want the names to get an accurate number of members in each club.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
John,
That’s what I thought to, until I re read the news letter.
Verbatim,
"We are asking that you please consider submitting names and addresses of all your members to help build a data base capable of obtaining significant sponsors to provide us with some financial stability."
 

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roland45 said:
Blue,
But, When a pro gun, pro sportsman, pro law organization decides its time to compile a data base of peoples names and addresses ( most likely, people who own and use firearms) to sell to any one with the money to buy them, it becomes less about sportsman / sports women / 2nd amendment,, and more about selling out to the highest bidder.
Roland,
There is a privacy statement associated with this request. The financial stability is not to be gained by "selling" your names. Your names will never be released from the PFSC. The issue is the acquisition of documented members, not the selling of names and addresses.
Also, at this time there is no way, other than a board such as this, or the depending on the county delegate and individual clubs, to disseminate information to our members.
By having the names and addresses the PFSC will have the ability to keep everyone updated as to what the important issues are that pertain to our hunting, trapping, angling heritage and what they are doing in the Capitol.

Therefore, the issue is not selling names to the highest bidder. Why would they sell names to some anti that would ultimately destroy what the PFSC stands for anyways?
The PFSC would gain nothing in doing this. Nor would individual members being that all moneys are bound by legal contract.
This is not a conspiracy, it is simply an attempt to get back to being more grassroots and getting more people involved in some of the important issues that face us every day.
I urge you to talk to your club about providing the list and raising the dues.
We all care about our heritage and traditions and need them protected.
The PFSC just needs the means to do it.
A few bucks per person is a small cost when you take into consideration that the PFSC is the strongest and one of the oldest voices in the Capitol fighting for what we believe in.
If you, or your club, would like a privacy statement from the PFSC board and attorney stating that the names will not be sold, please let us know.

Thanks for you and your clubs support.
We have a lot of battles coming up and need to be united now more than ever.
 

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Coupla things.....
I heard that there is not an accurate count of PFSC members due to some clubs fudging on their membership counts, in order to save a few bucks.
Another thing, the way the lists will be used, if Gander Mt. wants to send out a 20,000 recipient flyer, they will send it to PFSC office i n harrisburg. There, the staff will put a mailing label on each and post them. That way, no names go to any commercial database. They will pay the PFSC to label and send them on their way.
 

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That way, no names go to any commercial database. They will pay the PFSC to label and send them on their way.
That is correct.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Don,

"There is a privacy statement associated with this request"
I have to ask, why wasn’t this stated in the newsletter?

"Your names will never be released from the PFSC"
Again, why wasn’t this stated in the newsletter?

I have stated in previous posts, I have no problem with paying a higher amount for dues. I also have no problem with the federation becoming more grass roots. Grass roots to me means asking your membership to pitch in, with funds and or with planning and executing events to generate funds. Bake sales, Block shoots, Raffles that a working man (or laid off worker) can afford. Knocking on doors for support, ect. These I would ask my membership to do, and do with them, with a smile. After all, isn’t this is how the Federation generated the funds to get started? These types of events could be the federations savior. Never in my wildest of dreams would I consider generating a list of members as being grass roots.

I do not feel that providing names and addresses of members
of our gun club is in the best interest of our association, and in the long run, this is what I was elected to do, make decisions based on what’s best for our association. However, I will state your point to my other board members, and general membership, because that to, is what I was elected to do. State positions that I may or may not agree with.

Birddog,

"I heard that there is not an accurate count of PFSC members due to some clubs fudging on their membership counts, in order to save a few bucks"

I have no doubt this is true, but the same clubs could just as easily fudge their lists, to match their dues.

"Another thing, the way the lists will be used, if Gander Mt. wants to send out a 20,000 recipient flyer, they will send it to PFSC office I n harrisburg. There, the staff will put a mailing label on each and post them. That way, no names go to any commercial database. They will pay the PFSC to label and send them on their way."

I have heard that the Federation is looking into selling the office in Harrisburg, and I was unaware that the Federation had a inserting / labeling machine and staff to run it in their Harrisburg location. This is a very special machine for mailing , just ask any one who has worked in a mail room. This is why most companies “farm out” this kind of task, along with the list of who they want the fliers mailed to .

Denny,
"What guarantee do you have, that any company already having your name and address (like those mentioned), might not actually sell the list of their customers to another company that doesn't directly compete with them? Same for magazines that often barter their mailing lists"

Your right. I can make no such guarantee about other companies, but I can guarantee every single member of my gun club that the companies did not get their info from me.

"By falling into the wrong hands, what exactly is your perceived fear?"

History is full of lists of names falling into the wrong hands, and none of the history associated with lists of names, and wrong hands, has been good.
Germany used pre-war lists of gun owners to confiscate ... Following confiscation, the Germans were free to wreak their evil on the disarmed populace. I know we do not live in Germany, but neither did the Pols, or the French.
But, what the heck, everything worked out OK for them right?

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

DennyF,
This is why I posted this topic on the gun control forum ,Because lists of gun owners (sportsmen) names and addresses, no matter why they are created, and no matter who is in control of them now, can only lead to gun control, and in extreme case, genocide.
History has proven this, time and time again.
Roland
 

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Roland - Every sporting club existing already has their members names and addresses. When you fill out your membership you gave it to them.
The PFSC is simply refreshing / updating their list for the purpose of trimming down their newsletter mailings to only members and not former members or even deceased persons, in order to tighten up useless spending.
I see your concern but I trust the PFSC to have the sportsmen and women's interest at the forefront. And just because you belong to a sporting org. doesn't mean you own a gun.
 
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