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Discussion Starter #1
The headwaters of Bowmans Creek, and 100 year old dam are no longer. Stiff news along with new plans to drill in the area of the Old Loggers Path in the Loyalsock State Forest, state forest land, who owns it, the people, when did we agree to drilling in the pristine wilderness, and why can't the money go to repairing Mt Springs dam.

100 years don't matter

PA got the last of my tax money, forever. Do yourself a favor and move out of this condemed craphole of a state
 

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Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

I have mixed feelings about it. It is a beautiful lake. I was just there about a month ago.

But, I'm a trout fisherman, and the lake very likely warms the water in Bowmans Creek in the summer. The stream holds some wild trout, in addition to the hatchery trout that are stocked.

It would probably be a better trout stream if it didn't have that warming in the upper reaches.

(BTW, this topic is completely unrelated to natural gas issues.)
 

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Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

But, I'm a trout fisherman, and the lake very likely warms the water in Bowmans Creek in the summer. The stream holds some wild trout, in addition to the hatchery trout that are stocked.
The fact that it still holds some wild trout after the lake was in place for 100 years should suggest that the lake had no ill effects on water quality. It may even have improved water quality by the removal of silt from the creek.

I would be more concerned with the wind farm project and the silt / runoff it has and will cause in both Bowmans and Mahopany creeks. The small feeder creeks hold more native trout than the main streams ever will.

I know the OP is a big time fisherman and his thing is out of the way not often fished lakes and ponds. I enjoy some of the same. However the loss of this lake will impact other wildlife far more than the few pan fish and "snakes" ( now he knows who I am
) that call it home. The ducks and geese that use this as a nesting area will have to move. I can see swimming at lake Jean shut down from time to time in the next few years once all the geese move across the ridge. On the plus side it should make more room for the snowshoes. Waugh!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

I'm at a loss Jim, when you say OP were you referring to me or troutbert who you quoted?
 

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Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

Me to.....are you saying we shouldnt pursue our ability for energy independance?
 

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Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

You. Waugh!
 

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Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

This thread should not be in the PA Gas Lease Forum. It has nothing at all to do with gas issues.

It's about the planned drawing down of Mountain Springs Lake and removing the dam. So, the fishing forum is probably the best location.
 

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Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

Me to.....are you saying we shouldnt pursue our ability for energy independance?
Not at all. Just get use to living in another world. You can't have it both ways. Well at least it has never been done before. Waugh!
 

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Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

This thread should not be in the PA Gas Lease Forum. It has nothing at all to do with gas issues.

It's about the planned drawing down of Mountain Springs Lake and removing the dam. So, the fishing forum is probably the best location.
So few people fish that place it doesn't fit that forum ether.

I agree it should be moved but only to the outdoor issues broad category of which this gas drilling section is a part. Waugh!
 

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Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

troutbert said:
This thread should not be in the PA Gas Lease Forum. It has nothing at all to do with gas issues.

It's about the planned drawing down of Mountain Springs Lake and removing the dam. So, the fishing forum is probably the best location.
I agree.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

I originally posted this in the general fishing forum, and it was moved. Sorry if I confused 2 issues, my point was if the state is going to allow drilling in state forests why not use some of the money for dam repair. They take away but don't give back.

Pursue it all you want, just keep the wells out of state parks and state forests, these lands were set aside by previous leaders and politicians, now the current crooks are abusing what was once protected land.
 

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Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

jimbridger said:
But, I'm a trout fisherman, and the lake very likely warms the water in Bowmans Creek in the summer. The stream holds some wild trout, in addition to the hatchery trout that are stocked.
The fact that it still holds some wild trout after the lake was in place for 100 years should suggest that the lake had no ill effects on water quality.
Some impoundments do warm the water substantially. On a hot summer afternoon, I took the water temperature on Poe Creek (trib to Penns Creek), just above Poe Lake, and it was 64F. Then I took the water temperature just below the outlet of the lake and it was 82F. So the lake warmed the water 18F.

There are still wild trout in Poe Creek, particularly below where some cool tributaries flow in. But the stream would be a better wild trout stream if it didn't have that thermal impact from the impoundment.

The same is true of many trout streams with impoundments on them. And many of these impoundments are on public natural resource land, i.e. PGC lands, DCNR lands, and this case PFBC lands.
 

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Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

Well the warming issue isn't something I considered, and jimbridger does make some valid points, it's probably more complicated than we would assume.

I would like to see all the money from drilling in state forests put right back into the state forest programs. "Good Luck with that", yeah I know, a pipe dream.

If they had the funds or the initiative they could repair the dam, then study the water quality and it's environment, maybe make some headway in the problem of acidity which affects not only the lake but the streams as well. It's kind of a mystery why Mt. Springs is so acidic and Lake Jean not that far away is a decent fishery.

At the very least Mt Springs could be declared a historical landmark. My great grand-father chopped out and delivered ice from the lake 100 years ago.
 

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Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

Bowmans would be better if it had a series of dams like fishing creek in Benton. No money for that so the people of Noxen will need to rebuild every 10 years or so.

The fishing on bowmans has gone down hill when the lower dams were removed. The beaver helped for a while after that but then moved on. In the 70's with the lower dams still retaining water aided by the local beaver the creek would maintain a descent depth 10 months or better each year.
When this head dam is removed the trout that are stocked will get sun burn from late May until September unless a hurricane visits. Once the water runs off it is gone with nothing to hold any in reserve.

Heck the fish commission should sell the water to the drillers if they want to drain it down. Maybe they could make enough for a few smaller dams that don't heat the water as much as a 40 acre lake. See Buzz I got it on topic for you.
Waugh!
 

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Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

Henry David said:
Well the warming issue isn't something I considered, and jimbridger does make some valid points, it's probably more complicated than we would assume.

I would like to see all the money from drilling in state forests put right back into the state forest programs. "Good Luck with that", yeah I know, a pipe dream.

If they had the funds or the initiative they could repair the dam, then study the water quality and it's environment, maybe make some headway in the problem of acidity which affects not only the lake but the streams as well. It's kind of a mystery why Mt. Springs is so acidic and Lake Jean not that far away is a decent fishery.

At the very least Mt Springs could be declared a historical landmark. My great grand-father chopped out and delivered ice from the lake 100 years ago.
Lake Jean was getting pretty acidic, but they limed it.
http://water.epa.gov/polwaste/nps/success319/pa_lakejean.cfm

That's pretty cool about your great grandad cutting ice there. Somewhere I saw pictures of the old ice houses there back in the day. It was a pretty big business. You can still see foundations from the buildings.
 

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Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

Mt. Springs was also limed a few times. Waugh!
 

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Re: PA can afford drilling but not to save Mt Spri

Henry David said:
I would like to see all the money from drilling in state forests put right back into the state forest programs. "Good Luck with that", yeah I know, a pipe dream
That is why it is very important to keep the Game and Fish Commissions independant from Politians fingers as much as possible...

The present administration has not leased any State Forest Lands or Parks to my knowledge....yet. It was the last administration that raided the coffers of DEP and DCNR to spend elsewhere in a fiscal crisis... and I'm quite sure they would have raided the PGC and PFC were they legally able to do so...
 
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