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http://wnep.com/2015/11/11/repealing-pennsylvania-blue-laws/


DICKSON CITY -- There are laws several hundred years old on the books in Pennsylvania that are quite the head-scratchers.

That's why lawmakers are working to repeal some of those laws, nicknamed "blue laws."

"It's a very old law that dates back to people resting on Sunday and people going to church on Sundays," said Casey Medeiros, who works at the family Gibbons Ford dealership in Dickson City.

One of the blue laws still on the books is that car dealerships cannot sell cars on Sunday.

"You can't finalize any paperwork or anything dated for a Sunday," added Medeiros.

Some customers like the idea of browsing the dealership lot alone on a Sunday. Medeiros understands that, but at some point, she believes dealerships need to be given that option of selling cars on "the day of rest."

"It's such a growing business. It's growing so fast," explained Medeiros. "I think it's just crazy there's still one day a week we can't do business."

Even though you can't buy a car on Sundays, you can buy a motorcycle.

Not that it matters though -- when you ask Bob Fitzpatrick how many motorcycles he's sold at his shop in Dickson City on a Sunday in the last few years, it doesn't take him long to add them up.

"I think a lot of people come in here surprised on a Sunday that we sell anything other than t-shirts and parts on a Sunday," said Fitzpatrick, the general manager of Rummel Harley Davidson in Dickson City. "Most of the time they're not even aware that there's a sales person available for them."

Fitzpatrick's Harley dealership has offices in four states. And Pennsylvania does significantly worse on Sundays than every other state; a problem Fitzpatrick blames on the outdated and irrational blue laws.

"If people knew cars would be sold, then people would understand that it's possible to buy a vehicle on a Sunday," said Fitzpatrick. "And I think we would have proportionality more business on a Sunday than we normally have."

Don't expect that blue law to change anytime soon because no one in Harrisburg is calling for an appeal. And many car dealership owners we spoke with admit the law is a blessing in disguise because it gives employees one day every week to truly unwind.

But there is one blue law that could change, which brings us to state representative Frank Farina of Lackawanna County.

In a long list of failed Sunday hunting bills before him, Representative Farina's name comes up as the most recent one to try to repeal that ban.

"There's a lot of misconceptions to it," said Farina.

As Farina explained to us at a shooting range in Wyoming County, it is illegal to hunt for deer, turkeys and many other animals on Sundays.

"A lot of people say the animals need a rest," he added. "I don't know an animal that goes by a calendar. There is a lot of ridiculousness to it."

Even more ridiculous when you learn that it is already legal to hunt for coyotes, crows and foxes on Sundays.

"Last weekend I traveled to New York hunting for ducks and if you couldn't hunt Sundays, you wouldn't go," explained Farina. "What are you going to do on Sunday? People are spending a lot of money to go out there and to have to sacrifice one day, you just wouldn't do it."

The missed out revenue of Sunday hunting is staggering according to Farina's research: $800 million in total. Money he argued the state needs now more than ever.

Farina's bill currently sits in a committee in Harrisburg.
 

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Farina and myself were e-mailing back and forth and I called B.S. on his 800 million and show me how the Commonwealth was losing that much for a handful of Sundays. Never did get a reply on his 800 million, think he just copied it off of Kathy Davis and Dutch.
 

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Even though I am a supporter of this bill, the money angle is B S. So much more real world factually based information out there to support a regulatory transfer instead of pie in the sky numbers.
 

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I have a different point of view on the issue than dpms, but have respect for him, for thinking with common sense. The money thing is crap, we all know that. But a lot of the points are valid, on both sides. Leave out the stuff that just tries to get peoples ears perked up. The pro side always seems to go back to the increased revenue, the no SH side always seems to go for the safety issue. Which anyone who can think for themselves know are both NON-issues, and basically untrue.

Not sure about anyone else, but someone telling me a half truth, or not telling me the whole story, kind of insults my intelligence, and makes me lose respect for that person.(most of the time, the person in questions, usually has a "R" or a "D" behind their name)
 

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Also, if Farina is going to play the money card....wouldn't he have to have an account for the number of hikers, bikers, birdwatchers, etc. who might now not travel/eat out/buy stuff on Sundays to do their thing because they know hunters would be in the woods? Maybe $800 million would be generated by hunters, but the state loses $900 million through the other people staying home, and therefore realizes a net loss of $100 million by adding Sunday hunting. (I have no idea if that's the case, nor do I care what birdwatchers do on Sundays....but if you are going to open up the "economic impact" can, then you have to dump everything out.)
 

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Its all B.S.from the monies it was going to generate to the thousands of jobs it was going to create for a handful of more days hunting.It was a Sunday hunting thing period. All B.S. and Farino being a Politician is full of it.
 

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Actually the article was wrong. The range he was shooting at was in Susquehanna County, not Wyoming. He's a member at Rock Mountain Sporting Clays.
 

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Southwick is one source of the potential for increased revenue from additional SH in PA.

They are fairly well respected as an entity that gathers such info for a number of agencies/orgs that want answers to such things.

http://sundayhunting.org/pdf/pasundayhuntingsouthwickrpt.pdf

The NRA, NSSF and United States Sportsmen's Alliance (USSA) have also had similar research done in supporting additional SH in other states like VA, for example.

Everyone else accepts that hunting is responsible for billions of dollars of commerce in the USA each year.

Money spent for licenses/permits, firearms, ammo, hunting clothes/accesories, hunting leases and so on. Added to that, are monies spent locally when hunters travel to camps and hunting areas, buying food, gas, lodging, etc.

The former owner of a large hardware store/gun shop/hunting emporium near my camp, told me years ago that he normally made between 1/4 and 1/3 of his annual income from hunters, most of whom came to the area each fall.

Pretty much follows that local stores and restaurants were in the same "boat", as far as enjoying some additional income from hunters each fall.

So would an extra few weekend days make a difference as to whether or not hunters came to rural areas more often, or stayed longer than they do now in PA? I would say yes.
 

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That's pretty peculiar after HR/AR was put in stores in Tionesta area were closing. Camps were not being utilized like they were with 2 weeks buck then 3 day doe season.Were talking 800 million here in this state alone with thousands of jobs created by this your pretty close to 1 billion already just with an additional 16 Sundays included. Sorry I aint buying into this 1 its [censored] in its purest form. What the heck is Sheets convienance store gonna do hire 10 more employees per store because of Sunday hunting I don't think so DennyF.Your paragraph with guns ,ammo, licenses and the such aren't creating jobs their there already. Look Farina just wants to be the Knight on the white horse trying to get this passed. Never met a politician that did,nt [censored] or lie a lot and Im sure Farina is in this same category with the rest of the Politicians. Get a budget passed first then worry about this other crap.
 

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You are correct Denny, the revenue will increase. But if you break it down to the common person that will hunt Sundays, for every extra dollar he spend up at the hardware store upstate, someone else is losing that dollar. Might be the local eatery downstate where he would spend his Sunday if he couldn't hunt.

If SH ever comes about, it doesn't mean every hunter gets an extra bunch of money to spend on hunting. It means if they want to, they can. But if you make 50K a year, you don't make 51K when they allow SH. So for every establishment that gains from SH, there will be one that loses as well. It's a moot point. If you want to break it down further, why is money becoming a factor in making hunting decisions??
 

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They had to make it a money object to sell it to the Politicians or it wouldn't fly at all. Same with their quote about how many thousands of jobs it would create like 10,000 new jobs for 16 xtra days hunting. Smoke and Mirrors at its best.
 

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Money is a major component of such things as affect us all, especially when it involves recreation/travel of any kind.

Anything we want to do, costs money at some point, whether it's gas to travel or buying food away from home. Regular tourism and hunting/fishing tourism all fall into similar categories, where they benefit rural destinations.

Parsing this discussion by claiming no one would benefit from a few extra hunting days per year, belies the fact that they would benefit many areas that rely on people coming to visit to bolster the local economy.

I seldom go out to eat when at home, for example, so no local establishments lose a dime. More frequently do it when at camp, although I mostly eat at the cabin. That said, I generally buy between $50 and $100 worth of groceries when at camp, depending on how long I'm there.

As an example, back when we went up for spring gobbler on Friday mornings, hunted half days on Saturdays and went back home Sat. night or Sunday mornings, we didn't spend much while there.

I buy the vittles at a local grocery near camp because it gives me a gas discount. Gas has traditionally been ten to twenty cents per gallon higher up there, than at home. So I appreciate the discount.

Bear in mind that those doing the research take many factors into account, when coming up with projections on how much is generated by hunting tourism.

If hunters point to such things as positive impacts arising from hunting, then dismiss such projections as having no positives from additional SH in PA, something is wrong with that thinking.

Plain fact is, that hunting does generate billions each year in all sorts of venues, including money spent where people travel to hunt.
 

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DennyF you seem to be pretty knowlegable on this subject. Could you explain how 16 more hunting days would create thousands of jobs in this Commonwealth.
 

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I don't question that hunting generates money....but I'm asking the question. I have read all kinds of things about the Southwick study, etc. Nowhere have I seen an estimation, nor any attempt to estimate, how much money might be lost by the hikers, bikers, birdwatchers, etc. potentially taking their money out of the picture because they won't venture out on Sundays if hunting is allowed. Maybe they will still go out. I don't know. And that's why I'm asking the question... Did anyone take that into account? If so, I haven't seen it. There are WAY more non-hunters in this state then there are hunters. Potentially, the negative economic impact of those people staying away could be significantly greater than the positive impacts of hunter tourism.
If you tell the business community they'll realize an extra $800 million from hunters through Sunday hunting, but you don't tell them they'll lose $900 million because others will stay home because of Sunday hunting, then you're not really presenting a true picture of the economic impact of Sunday hunting.
 

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Perhaps the biker/hiker people can fund a study to determine the impact of a perceived loss of revenue arising from any additional SH here?

If we're talking about the loss of time for them to enjoy themselves on SGLs, too darn bad. People go out now on SGLs to hike, bird watch, ride where permitted and enjoy nature.

They are required to wear the same amount of FO during hunting seasons that require FO, as hunters on SGLs. If someone brings up safety, then why isn't the general public "unsafe" during all hunting seasons?

My opinion, is that trying to counter any potential positives arising from additional hunting opportunities, by fretting over some possible economic loss involving non-hunting use of SGLs for example, is a red herring.

All outdoor recreation generates economic benefits. The question is, why do hunters in PA have to be the ones to sacrifice so that some can "feel safer" by having a day they don't have to share the woods - which is the most common opposition expressed, for more SH?
 

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DennyF....you're totally missing the meaning of the term "economic impact." It has nothing to do with safety...it has nothing to do with whether the people spending money are hunters, or bikers or hikers, etc. If SH hunting means one guy goes to the mountains and spends $100, but it also causes three people who would have been there spending a total of $300 to stay home.....then the true economic impact is minus-$200. And I'm not saying that math is right. I'm asking if anyone actually did that math. I haven't seen evidence that it was done.
 

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Safety should not be a Sh issue, just as increased revenue isn't a Sh issue, or it shouldn't be anyway.

The only point I see that is a valid argument is actually a choice that some of the lawmakers of this state have to answer. You have just over 50% of the hunters of this state(10% population as a whole, 5% as a whole who want SH). Then you have the non-hunting public, who either don't care, or don't want it. So is upsetting the SH apple cart really worth it for a mere 5% of the population? It WILL all come down to money, as we all know that's how politics works. So they will simply weigh out who will win them more votes, and who will give them money for re-election. I would venture to guess the 5% will come out at the bottom of that, hence why it hasn't been passed yet. If the 5% who care deeply enough about the issue, can get more money together for the lawmakers than the PFB, then it will become law. Politics isn't that hard to understand, just follow the money trail.
 

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PJReilly since DennyF doesn't want to answer my question maybe you can. How could 16 more hunting days in this Commonwealth bring Thousands of jobs to said Commonwealth. Thank You for the reply.
 

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DennyF....you're totally missing the meaning of the term "economic impact." It has nothing to do with safety...it has nothing to do with whether the people spending money are hunters, or bikers or hikers, etc. If SH hunting means one guy goes to the mountains and spends $100, but it also causes three people who would have been there spending a total of $300 to stay home.....then the true economic impact is minus-$200. And I'm not saying that math is right. I'm asking if anyone actually did that math. I haven't seen evidence that it was done.
Nope, I fully comprehend the concept of an economic impact relative to use of the outdoors.

Only brought up the safety aspect, because non-hunters cite it as a primary reason they don't want to "share the woods with hunters", on the day they claim it is safe to be out there: Sunday.

Your theory that someone won't go someplace to spend money, because someone else is hunting there on a Sunday, lacks merit in my opinion.

Draw whatever hypothetical conclusions you want to, but all tourism, be it hunting or non-hunting, is part of the overall economic impact people going to enjoy the outdoors have on a local economy.

Coming to the conclusion that a few additional days to hunt will have an adverse impact economically, makes little sense. Has that happened in any of our neighboring states since they adopted more SH?

NY has had SH for a long time. Non-hunters still hike in the fall and cross country ski in the winters, in the Catskills and Adirondacks.

Which brings us back to the safety aspect again. Nowhere has it been proven that SH is detrimental to other outdoors activities, or that it somehow drives others away during a hunting season.

I will add this: Based on discussions here and with people personally engaged, its beccome obvious to me over the past few years, who most of the hunters are that do not want SH. They are primarily the same ones fussing about "not enough deer" and don't want another day of deer hunting.

I could care less about any SH during firearms deer, althought it would benefit those who work Saturdays and have kids involved in Saturday sports?

But I sure would like that additional weekend day while at camp, to hunt small game and turkeys.
 

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$800,000,000.00 from Sunday hunting? Thats roughly a $1,000 per licensed hunter extra. I have never spent that much to hunt in a year, or even in 5 years. Then to say that much more will be spent if folks can bambi blast on Sundays. triple [censored]
 
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