Pa AR changes pos

410-er said:

It takes just as much skill to kill a spike as a 10pt.

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Couple of things here. #1 - the 10 pointer is probably mature and is very wary, possibly nocturnal in less numbers than yearlings. #2 - 10 pointers aren't that common, even among mature bucks. Around us, 9 out of 10 mature bucks and 4x4s.

SRA-5C+ said:

Want to help Pa's herd? I think this entire state should be "Earn a buck". Shoot a doe, you can go back to 1980 and kill your spike.

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Special Regs and the big woods up north are a very different dynamic. I think enough doe are taken up there. 10 doe for every buck in the butcher shop. Deer densities are nowhere near the Philly suburb woodlots.

bohunr said:

no more mentored youth.

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Why? This has been a successful program for many years. The years I spent hunting with my son, in the MY program, are the best I've ever had afield. And now have a hunting buddy for life. Same with all my friends. I can't imagine why any would want to take this away.

bohunr said:

because they are being treated differently and dont have to abide by AR's, they are killing way to many small bucks.

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I don't think they're killing way too many small bucks. If they were, wouldn't we have a lot less mature bucks than we do? Seems like things are going well.

bohunr said:

then why do people think removing restrictions from seniors will impact the herd

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I never contended that it would. If it did, it may be because the number of senior hunters is high.

From what I've heard, many seniors don't care to shoot a spike. They've hunted for 50+ seasons and shot plenty of bucks. The thrill of shooting a spike is long gone for them. So, keeping ARs on seniors or lifting them, probably won't make a huge difference. For the MY, you are trying to get them hooked. And the impact is probably not very high. Also, not all MY shoot sub-legal bucks. They take legal bucks as well.

yellodog said:

IMO waiting til you're twelve isn't an issue though, you're either going to be a hunter or not, starting at 8 or 10 probably is irrelevent.

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This was true from WW1 until the 1980s. There was a lot less to pull a kids interest back then. Now a days, a kid has a million distractions and sitting in the woods isn't one of them. Instilling it young is what you need these days to get hunting in a kid's blood. Things are different these days.

yellodog said:

My dad took us with him when we were real young. The smell of gunpowder, the dogs, the ducks, pheasants, and grouse, just being with my dad and grandpa. I doubt actually shooting game at 6 or 8 is what makes a kid a hunter.

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What years were these? Back in the day, kids played cowboys and indians, made forts, had paper routes, rode their bikes to fishing holes, etc.... Pretty much using their imagination, make pretend. All of these things are not done much by today's youth,

bohunr said:

because they will shoot the small bucks just like the seniors if they remove restrictions for them. if seniors cant have a choice why should juniors. dont hand them anything, make them earn it. they'll appreciate it more

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We got to shoot small bucks when we were kids. If we want them to have the same experience, then no ARs. I could shoot small bucks for 20 years. 1982-2002.

nicerack said:

I don’t have a problem with 8-11 year olds tagging along with mom or dad to OBSERVE ONLY
Watch and learn. They shouldn’t be issue tags just cause they paid a nominal fee to do so. I know for a fact in some cases the adult shoots the Deer anyway the mentor tag goes on it

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Most hunter/parents would rather their kid have success than them. Myself and all my friends as well, we'd rather go a season without getting a deer if it meant the kid had success. That's more rewarding to me than any deer I ever shot.

The few examples you are sighting are crap parents. Terrible people. Selfish and inconsiderate to others. They probably put themselves ahead of their kids in many situations. And definitely put themselves ahead of any other people.

Why punish all the good people because you are afraid that this minority may take advantage. Turn them in, maybe.

Success rates of seniors should be higher than MY. One person vs two. Less movement, less scent. Far more experience and a ton more patience. Unless they have mobility issues. In that case, I would loosen lots of restrictions on them. Including shooting whatever buck they want with whatever weapon they want.

I don't know what happened to the turkeys. Even down home, where they aren't really hunted, I went from seeing them almost daily to not seeing a single turkey in 10 years. Used to be a ton that lived in the woods behind the kids' school. Definitely no hunting there. And they all disappeared.

bohunr said:

the buck to doe ratio they envisioned when this whole thing took effect never happened. we were suppose to shoot the big mature does and let the smaller antlerless deer go that would save all the button bucks, thats why they increased the "doe" seasons and instituted HR efforts. kill more doe let the bucks grow.

never happened because PA is mostly a "brown and down" state, we love our venison to much to let a deer walk away.

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I'd say the buck:doe ratio is way more even now. 1980s and 1990s you'd see 20 doe before you see a buck. Now I feel like it's more of a 50:50 shot at whether the deer walking by will be a buck or a doe. Time in the field has shown this as well as trail cameras and a backyard feeder.

RegularJoe said:

Comparing bear cubs to young deer is ridiculous due to the sheer numbers of deer and season length, and the fact that cubs are legal for all to shoot not just some.

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Bears are also harder to judge. Especially if they are alone in the woods. A lot of hunters have never seen a bear in the woods. For most hunters, getting any bear is a once-in-a-lifetime thing. If a hunter sees a bear, in bear season, while hunting, and he has a tag, he's usually going to take the shot. He's not calmly looking over herds of bear, waiting for the right size to harvest.

RegularJoe said:

I don't need a trophy bear, I just want some bear meat. You can't eat the years of age on a bear, MEat, MEat, MEat.

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I LOVE bear meat. It is my favorite game meat. I've had whitetail, mule deer pronghorn, caribou, moose and bear. Bear wins it over all of those.

338/378wm said:

Have no desire to shoot a small cub bear of its mom just for meat because I have a tag.

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We don't have a spring bear season.

Have any states had AR and dropped it? It would be interesting to look at how things turned out there.

RyanR said:

When you drop AR, you're going to lose the benefits of AR. That's how it turns out.

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There's a good chance of that. But, maybe there would not be much of an impact. I think the culture has changed and lots of hunters would still pass on spikes and forks. Combine that with the lower hunter numbers, I wonder how many more spikes and forks would be shot. It would would not be zero. But, would it be a huge increase? I'm not sure. None of the guys in my camp would shoot a spike. We shot lots of spikes back in the day, though. First legal buck, we took. We have changed as hunters since then. Not sure if it's our age and we matured as hunters.