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Discussion Starter #1
One of my rifles has wear to the rifling lands in .270 caliber. Do I want to just replace the barrel with a custom made contour using this as a pattern? It is a heavy contour but doesn't have a makers name although the guy that sold me the gun told me it is a Douglas barrel. Unfortunately, the barrel measurements do not match the dimensions for current Douglas barrels. The barrel was installed in the mid 1960's. Is it possible to have this barrel re-bored to a larger caliber such as .280 REM or even .30-'06 without removing it from the action? I spent many hours on the stock which costed me like $500 for the semi-inletted wood. So, I'd rather not have to mess with a channel re-do on the stock. My knowledge is nearly zero on this subject. Any help is appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Stetam said:
MrC,
Have you shot the rifle? Worn lands do not automatically equate to poor accuracy. Yes. Ran 50+ rounds through it and best was 2 inches at 100 yards off a sandbag and also off a very solid rifle rest with both Rem. cor-lokt and Winchester ballistic silver tips. Barrel is 21 inches long.

Stetam
 

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well you could alway's sell it to me..and buy another one..lol..just kidding..i'd do what it takes to fix it or rebarrel it..an old rifle is like a close friend..nice to have around and sadly missed when their gone..good luck let us know how you make out
 

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If it were me,I would try a different scope first and make sure every screw was as tight as possible.On the scope and the gun.One loose screw or a bad scope will do the same thing.That would be free to try as most people that own a custom gun have at least one more gun with a scope to borrow from.
 

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To shoot out a barrel in 270 would take alot of shooting. I would check the scope & give it a good cleaning with a copper solvent first. I have seen alot of rifles shoot real bad ,but after a good cleaning do pretty good.
 

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I agree with Ray. Seen some bad looking bores really nail it in the accuracy department. My friend has a Win Model 54 in .270 that was passed down three generations. Groups started to open up even after a thorough scrubbing and checking all screws etc. Had a gunsmith cut one and a quarter inches off the barrel and he was back in business.
 

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If it comes down to it have a liner in 270 installed
 

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To shoot out a barrel in 270 would take alot of shooting. I would check the scope & give it a good cleaning with a copper solvent first. I have seen alot of rifles shoot real bad ,but after a good cleaning do pretty good.
Also my experience and the first things I do with a new to me firearm: Clean the bore, action and trigger mechanism; Check mounts and scope; Check action bedding and barrel fit to stock, while rifle is apart for cleaning.

Have resurrected several old rifles over the years, whose main problem was just a cruddy bore.

Since the majority of my rifles were bought used, it's been a normal routine to soak bores with Shooter's Choice; some mild brushing with SC, then lots of patches to remove built-up crud and copper jacket fouling.

Varmint rifles are often a different matter entirely, compared to "deer" rifles. Few of the latter were ever fired enough to ruin a bore, for the most part. One of the most common problems with older deer rifles, beyond cruddy bores, are damaged muzzle crowns from improper cleaning.

Easy enough to improve the crown on most muzzles and it often returns the favor with improved groups.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
shade mt said:
well you could alway's sell it to me..and buy another one..lol..just kidding..i'd do what it takes to fix it or rebarrel it..an old rifle is like a close friend..nice to have around and sadly missed when their gone..good luck let us know how you make out
Actually, I had thought of selleing it not because of any shortcomings in accuracy mind you. 2 inches at a hundred isn't bad. The main thing is it weighs like 11 pounds plus with a Bushnell Elite 3200 4-12 40AO. The stock is heavy and very robust with a 13.875 inch pull. Probably got like $1500 in it so might be hard-pressed to get close to that amount for it. It'd be hard to let it go......The Wenig rough wood costed me over $500 alone. Plus the claro walnut took 15 plus coats of stock oil to fill the pores. In addition to the weight, the guy that checkered the stock for me made a mistake and ran two lines together by the pistol grip.I've got more reasons to keep it than sell it. Getting it to shoot under a MOA would tip the scales to the keeper side.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
diablo666 said:
If it were me,I would try a different scope first and make sure every screw was as tight as possible.On the scope and the gun.One loose screw or a bad scope will do the same thing.That would be free to try as most people that own a custom gun have at least one more gun with a scope to borrow from.
Good point. Thanks. I checked the mount screws to the barrel and to the scope before shooting the gun. Then I re-chekced them twice since then.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
DennyF said:
To shoot out a barrel in 270 would take alot of shooting. I would check the scope & give it a good cleaning with a copper solvent first. I have seen alot of rifles shoot real bad ,but after a good cleaning do pretty good. Trigger (timney sportsman) is very clean. Tell me more about how to see if the barrel has been improperly cleaned at the tip. Thanks.
Also my experience and the first things I do with a new to me firearm: Clean the bore, action and trigger mechanism; Check mounts and scope; Check action bedding and barrel fit to stock, while rifle is apart for cleaning.

Have resurrected several old rifles over the years, whose main problem was just a cruddy bore.

Since the majority of my rifles were bought used, it's been a normal routine to soak bores with Shooter's Choice; some mild brushing with SC, then lots of patches to remove built-up crud and copper jacket fouling.

Varmint rifles are often a different matter entirely, compared to "deer" rifles. Few of the latter were ever fired enough to ruin a bore, for the most part. One of the most common problems with older deer rifles, beyond cruddy bores, are damaged muzzle crowns from improper cleaning.

Easy enough to improve the crown on most muzzles and it often returns the favor with improved groups.
 

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It normally takes several thousand rounds to burn out a barrel. How many rounds do you have through it. When did it start shooting poorly?

2 inches isn't a bad group depending on the situation. Have you tried different brands of ammo? If I shoot Remington brand ammo out of my .270, I get 2" groups or larger at 100 yards. Winchester ammo gives me a little better group, but with Federal ammo I typically cut holes at 100 yards. Other guns I have shoot other ammo brands different.

The first thing I would do is give it a good cleaning or even take it to a professional gunsmith for a cleaning and look over. Many guns are a "quart low" on oil which I noticed affects precision. A fine coat of a Teflon based oil (Tri-flow, Rem-oil) is all that is needed. Some people like to use a lot of WD-40 or other oils which helps to foul up the bore if the gun is stored for several months without shooting.

I would also check the barrel channel to see if there is any contact between the barrel and the wood. Sometimes, the wood can swell around the barrel and any contact can result in poor precision.

The crown is the last part of the barrel that the bullet touches and can make a big difference in precision. Look at the crown for any potential burrs using a Q-tip. You may not be able to see them, but a Q-tip will give it away pretty quick. A friend had an old 8 mm Mauser that would not group better than 5". He was going to put a new barrel on it but I convinced him to have it re-crowned. Afterwards he was shooting less than 1" groups.

Make sure all screws holding the action into the stock are tight. Also make sure the scope mount screws are tight. Trying another scope would be a good options if the rest of this stuff doesn't work.

I think there are a lot of inexpensive options to try before re-barreling is considered.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Took 'er out to the range this afternoon and tried 3 different loads with a cool down in between each load. Before I left, I ran the brush through 6 or 7 more times and now the rifling looks clean and lands more sharp. Then I re-adjusted the trigger to get rid of some play, then adjusted the travel as well. Of course I made sure it wouldn't slam fire or safe-off fire or fire when the bolt was opened and that everything was safe and let the pull set the way it was. First group was the best. at 3/4 inch for 3 shots at 100 yards using Remington Core-lokt 130 grain PSP. Next group, Winchester Accubond 140 grain....shot all over the place, 3 inch group, final group Federal blue box 130 grain soft point....again...all over the place...3 inch group at best. I'll try it again with more psp's after I clean the barrel again.
 

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Glad to hear that some barrel cleaning may have helped?

My best "success story" on that account, was a 1920s vintage M94 that eventually got to the point that it couldn't be counted on to consistantly hit a paper plate @ 50 yards. That was back in the early 80s and I'd decided the rifling looked like it was "gone" and had put it on the living room wall.

Later, decided to see how Shooter's Choice would work on that bore and discovered that once 60 years' worth of crud was removed, it was capable of shooting 2" groups @ 50 yards, much better than it had done when I bought it used in 1964.

While it's not inconceivable that one factory load could shoot 3/4" groups and other factory loads might go 3", it's not been the norm for anything I've tinkered with over the past 40+ years?

If subsequent groups with the "best" loads are repeatable and consistant, then that's a good thing.

When I was working up reloads for my first 25-06 (M700) in the late 70s, a bud that already owned one, gave me dozens of bullets in several weights to try. My rifle quickly showed a preference for 87gr and 100gr Sierras, using the same components that his M700 did well with.

He could not get 75gr or 90gr hollow points to shoot worth spit in his rifle, neither could I, although I spent some time tinkering with powder charges to see if any ground could be gained. None was. Although a buddy with a M77 Ruger in 257 Roberts, found the 75gr Sierra HPs to shoot very well in his rifle. So he got 'em all.

IIRC, the disparity in my groups between the 87gr Sierras (best) and the 90gr HPs (worst), was only about an inch @ 100 yards, rested?

Not long afterwards, a local shop had a mess of factory ammo obtained from another shop's going-out-of-business auction. We scarfed up all the R-P 25-06 ammo he had, just for the brass. I got 5 or 6 boxes of Rem. 87gr hollow point ammo and it shot nearly as well as my reloads did.

Haven't fired a factory round in any of my 25-06s since then, but in other rifles that I occasionally shoot Core Lokt factory loads in, most will stay fairly close to my reloads, for group size consistancy.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for the detailed post Denny. I do relish the details.
Looking back at the range session yesterday, I relaize that after the first round I took a smoke break to allow the barrel to cool. In session two I thought the crosshairs were on the money except for a couple 1/2 inch pulls on error on my part. I could feel that my blood pressure was raised from the previous session and I may have opened up the groups a bit. I still think the gun likes the Core-lokt' PSP loads in spite of my wavering. After shooting less than a box total yesterday, the patch is still coming up black after a thorough brushing and a 30 minute soak with Gunslick foam. Is Shooters choice your go-to cleaner? My 'slick seems to let carbon behind.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I'm OK with 3/4 inch and only if I can repeat it consistently. I know, reloads are more repeatable than a high speed production round. At this point I'll be content at under an inch for now. If I ever decide to sell the gun, then I want to be able to say, this is what is will do and this what off-the-shelf rounds it likes best. If the buyer wnats to persue cloverleaf groups with handloads, then he has a good piece of equipment to start with.
 

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Is Shooters choice your go-to cleaner? My 'slick seems to let carbon behind.
I began using SC about the time it had hit the market. Cleaned up quite a few neglected bores with it, for myself and others with problems, back then.

While some of my fellow rifle loonies have gone on to other types of bore cleaner/copper solvent in the years since then, I still mostly use SC. Went thru a period in the early to mid 80s, when I cleaned my varminter bores frequently with SC, to remove copper fouling. No longer do that as often.

My old varmint hunting bud and I decided some years ago, that we were becoming too crazed over clean bores and slacked off a bit. The rifles haven't seemed to notice any difference?




I have some Break Free carbon cutter that I originally got for my flintlocks, that is sometimes used for centerfire bores. Might give that a whirl, if you're still getting "black" patches after using what is primarily a copper remover solution?

I'm sure there are products now that are as good or better than Shooter's Choice, but it wasn't broke, so I haven't "fixed it" yet.

My oldest 22-250 has killed a coupla thousand woodchucks since it was new in the late 70s and fired more rounds than it has killed varmints. Still a tack driver. Went to a slightly milder load a long time ago. The 'chucks never noticed the maybe 150FPS difference, brass lasts longer and the rifle is still a very good shooter. I expect it will far outlast me?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I will try some carbon cutter too. Seems odd that the bore doesn't 'stay' accurate. I don't think I got all deposits out yet.
Seems that the load should match the gun. I think hotter loads are wasted unless the barrel is long enough for the load. My gut tells me it takes so long for the bullet to "stabilize" in the barrel because the bullet is starting from a dead stop. More juice, more barrel required. But, I'm just a novice and have no proof of some of my inclinations yet. Lots to learn.
Good shootin'.
 
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