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Discussion Starter #1
On another gun forum I've seen two instances about people stating they were checked by WCO's at an SGL range.

One had a hunting license with him, the other had a hunting license, but not on his person. The claim is the WCO checked and told them that their name did not show up on the HTE database despite them having hunting licenses, their hunting licenses were now invalid until they took a HTE class.

I thought there was an option on the application to produce a hunting license from a previous year from PA or another state, or to "certify" that you had the license if you could not produce it, in lieu of showing proof of HTE?

Of course I don't know how they got their current PA hunting licesne; producing a license from a previous year or attesting to the fact that they did have such a license but can not produce it.

I was in the USMC from 1979-1983 and stationed in NC. I think it was in 1982, when several of my buddies and I bought NC hunting licenses. No safety test was required back them. When I moved home in the fall of 1983, I went and purchased a PA hunting license. I'm sure I signed the PA application stating I previously held a hunting license from another state, that being NC. I can't remember whether or not I actually was able to produce the NC license.

So, does that mean for 30 years my hunting licenses have been invalid?
 

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I took my HTE class back in 1984. I highly doubt it is anywhere in the PGC records. After my first license I have never needed to produce my card again...ever. Driver's license ad my old license, and now just my DL and that little yellow card thingy that has your CID number on it are all I have ever needed to get a hunting license. If you have a valid license, and aren't doing anything UNLAWFUL, I cannot see how...or why a PGC officer/deputy would hassle you as long as your license was valid. I still have my HTE card somewhere but I don't carry it in my wallet because I want to keep it from getting any more tattered than it already is. Sounds like there was more to their stories than they wanted to disclose is my thoughts on that matter...not like you see it very often on chat boards like these though...you know? where someone gets hammered on by the PGC and posts up complaining about it but choses to leave out little tidbits about WHY they got hassled in the first place...that just never happens, now does it?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I think there is something more to the story too.

If they were revoking or making a person's hunting license invalid until they have proof of HTE, shouldn't they be able to have done that when the person bought the license?
 

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I think if the PGC finds someone with a hunting license without an HTE record then they should give them a warning and allow them to attend a future course before another license is issued..
 

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The HTE exemption for having a previous license, it must have been a lawfully obtained license. Just because a person bought a license previously doesnt mean that it was legal to do so.
With a couple qeustions it can become quite evident if an individual took an HTE course or not.
I am 41 (took it in 84) and my HTE is in the online data base, but I also still have that card signed by Dick Ruths.
We just dealt with a individual who said he started hunting while still in the army, ok, what year and lets see the DD214, ummmm I cant find my DD214...ok what year did you get out of the service.....like 1992 or 93 it might have been 94....I don't know anyone that can't tell me the year they were discharged from the military
Pretty much same for HTE,I can tell you the year I took my HTE and where it was. I can tell you what it entailed etc.
When most of the individuals(who havent had HTE) get asked...Oh I took it right down there....yeah at Walmart, it was like 3 hours.
To put it the most simple though. Strict Liability..Its not the officers responsibility to prove you dont have an HTE or a legally obtained license...its the hunters responsibility to show they were permitted to have that license legally. When the hunter signs the license, they are saying that they are lawfully permitted to have that license (or that too could be an additional charge)
Too easy for someone to walk into Wallyworld or Dicks and say...I want a license....and they get it, never taking the HTE or meeting any exemption
But in the end, I'm sure there was alot more to it than, "I couldnt find my card and got a citation".
 

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burk313 said:
I think if the PGC finds someone with a hunting license without an HTE record then they should give them a warning and allow them to attend a future course before another license is issued..
Do you think if someone is driving without a license they should be given a warning and permitted to go get a permit and then take the exam?
And I have given warnings, but the individual was honest with me up front....never knew anything about HTE, nor did they attempt to lie about taking one. I gave her until the new license year to take the class and show me her card...her punishment was losing the license she unlawfully purchased.
 

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Expect allot more of this especially at the pgc gun range since it is far cheaper to buy a hunting license than a range permit
 

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So everyone must now carry their license and an HTE card at all times while engaged in hunting activities?

If you can't find your card and your HTE was before the electronic records I assume this, from the PGC website, will suffice...

Hunter Replacement Cards
FAQs - General Hunting Questions

I lost my hunter education card, can I get a replacement?
Hunter-Trapper Education course records dating back to 1987 are maintained on a computer database. Bowhunter Education course records dating back to 2000 are maintained. Contact the Game Commission's Hunter-Trapper Education Division at at 717-787-7015 - Monday through Friday, from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. - for assistance in obtaining a replacement certificate. If you took a hunter or trapper education course before the above dates, you must complete a Hunter Education Program Replacement Certificate Affidavit form, which can be downloaded from this site. The affidavit must be completed, signed and notarized before it is returned to the Hunter-Trapper Education Division. Replacement certificates are usually mailed in 10 to 14 days upon receipt of an application. NOTE: Effective February 1, 2005; a $10 fee is charged for issuing a hunter education replacement certificate.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
PerryTuscarora said:
So everyone must now carry their license and an HTE card at all times while engaged in hunting activities?
That is my point. If you don't have your HTE card on you when checked or your name doesn't show up in the HTE database, then what?

After I posted this thread it dawned on me that I did take a HTE class, way back in 1993. My brother, a first time hunter needed to take the class, so I agreed to take it with him even though I had been hunting in PA for 10 years already without the HTE.

Remember, I said when I got out of the USMC in 1983, I applied for a PA hunting license, stating I had held a hunting license in the prior year from another state, NC.

Let's say I never took the HTE class and get checked tomorrow. Is the WCO going to say since I don't have a HTE card or my name is not in the database, my license is not valid? Or that I need to prove that 30 years ago I had a license in NC? Truth be told, I really wish I still had that NC license as a memento, but it's long since disappeared.

Anyway, I did dig up my HTE card which took quite some time!! I don't plan on carrying it with my hunting license and if checked, I'm going to hope my name is in the database or I will find out what happens if its not!

 

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You guys are taking this to extremes. As Lifes2fun pointed out, there is more to the story. In the initial exchange of information the person being talked to probably gave a clue that something was amiss by being overly nervous given the situation. That led to a few more questions ...
WCOs are not wandering around charging people with invalid licenses because hunters can't produce their HTE card. I recommend you take a moment to say hmm... I wonder if there may be more than meets the eye here?
 

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Seems to me there is a date if you were born before, you are exempt from the HTE card. When I got my first license at age 12 there was no such thing.
I did take the course in '78 so I could hunt Colorado.
 

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What year did they start keeping records
took the hte class in 1970 then in 1984 with a couple young kids been to about 5 classes with other kids
 

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First, a person is not required to have completed a hunter safety course AT ALL to lawfully purchase a license in PA. There are exceptions to that requirement set forth right in the statute. For instance, a person who leaves the US armed services and gets a license within 6 months, can buy a license the following years because he lawfully held/purchased a license in the past. There are probably several thousand, who had licenses before the requirement for hunters safety classes, they can continue to purchase licenses for the rest of their life. Lastly, a person who lawfully held a hunting license in another state or nation, may lawfully obtain a PA hunting license with no hunters safety certification and then continue buying PA licenses in the following years.

This stuff about issuing warnings and saying licenses are invalid is certainly coming from people who never read the statute.

"(b) Hunter education.--Persons who have not held a hunting license lawfully issued to them in this Commonwealth or another state or nation or have not hunted under the exceptions in section 2706 (relating to resident license and fee exemptions) or do not possess a certificate of training approved by the director prior to the enactment of this title shall be required to attain accreditation in a hunter education program approved by the director before a hunting license is issued to them. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to a person who presents:
(1) Evidence of service in the armed forces of the United States or in the United States Coast Guard and discharge or separation under honorable conditions within six months of the date of application.
(2) Evidence that the person is currently serving in the armed forces of the United States or in the United States Coast Guard."
 

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So in essence, if I go to another state and buy a limited non-resident license, one of those for temporary hunting, that often does not require a hunter's safety course, for instance a three day license for waterfowl hunting, that person can then buy a license in PA every year thereafter because they lawfully held a license in another state or country.

A WCO would be hard pressed to establish that a person illegally bought a license unless the hunter gives/admits the information to incriminate himself.
 

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Well I took the course back in 72. Pretty sure I'm in no data base(LOL). My card disintagrated a long time ago. All I can tell you(officer) is that I took it at the local AAA club and it was 2 nights + 1 day at the range. Officer Liendecker(RIP.. a very respected man) was in charge. That and the fact that I would have my license with me and I would show up on the data base for buying a license should be enough for any WCO.
 

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zimmerstutzen said:
This stuff about issuing warnings and saying licenses are invalid is certainly coming from people who never read the statute.
Before responding, I will ask if you intended this comment for me?
 

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I find it kinda odd that those who DID in fact take an HTE course (even in another state) ad not able to prove it. I took mine in the early 80's while in AZ. A few years ago I realized I lost in somewhere between leaving the Military 22 years ago and my residences in between. Even though I had a previous licenses from states that included NC, AZ, TX, PA, NJ and FL, I was told that several states have changed their laws for non res requirements when purchasing a license. Some now require proof of a HE course regardless of whether you hold a current lucense from you resident state. I made one phone call to AZ Fish and Game and obtained a duplicate HTE within five days at no cost.

While talking with the AZ Fish & Game associate on the phone,they were able to pull up my records from almost thirty years ago. She was able to tell me where I took the test and who my instructor was. Vey helpful. I even sent her supervisor an email thanking them for her professionalism and very fast response to my inquiry.
 

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Actually it was in response to Burk313's comment. Your posts clearly show that you understand that not everyone is required to have an HTE card.

I had a license before I got my card because they were not mandatory when I got my license, so technically, having had a PA hunting license, I never was legally required to take it.

Just as there are exceptions to having a driver's license and registration, (farm equipment going up the road from one field to another) there are exceptions to having both a hunting license, and/or an HTE card.

IMO, the rule ought to be uniform across the board for everyone with no exceptions for anyone.
 
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