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My neighbor has been laid off for a while. I have a building i do alot of bullet casting,case loading and work on mine and the famialy guns in.
Last spring he started to come over alot and ask questions. We went shooting and i showed him the differenc in hand loads as to factory loads. He then wanted a set of dies for his rifle. I ordered them. When they came i got him all the items he would need to load up some brass.I got him 100 bullets,the weight he wanted,i gave him 100 primers and some extra powder i had that i don't use.It was the powder he wanted for his loads. It was new stuff.
I said to him"When do you want to come over and i'll help you put some of theese together?"
He says"I'm taking them to my buddies place,he is going to load them for me." I ask hime how long has he been loading. His reply,"Last year."
I ran a copy off of the manual for that bullet in his gun and gave it to him to give to his friend. Powder weights and C.O.L.s. I offered to go to his friends and give him some pointers,but he says the guy don't need any help.I've been loading since the 60's! He loads for his own guns and they shoot well? OK by me then.
Last week a knock comes at my door. My neighbor and his gun!!! The guys friend had loaded his some cases and told him they shoot very well but are a little tight?????? Tight my butt!!! You almost needed to pound the bold shut!!! I looked at one of the loads and the bullet had marks on it from the rifleing 1/4 inch or more down the bullet??? The loader had shot some of these from that gun?
The neighbor says to mt"Listen to this?" Now,when he closes the bolt,empty,it makes an aful squreeching noise!!!!!! It didn't do that before he says.The gun is a Reminton-BDL-Classic Model.
I told him not to shoot any more of them and what was awrong,so far!
My question is this: Could these loads have built up so much pressure that it done something to the action????
This is the very best example of "DON"T SHOOT ANYBODY ELSES HANDLOADS!!!!!!!"
 

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not to be negetive about this, but he would have never left my place with the dies, powder, primers, or bullets. the only way he would have gotten anything loaded was by me. if he didnt pay for anything, all those loading supplies belonged to you. only way i load for a friend is that they supply the stuff and i load. i also require that the gun is left with me so i can check the seating of the bullets. like you ive been loading a long time and take it seriously.
 

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Sounds like the new reloaded didn't know how to read a micrometer or a caliper and the had too much chamber pressure and they bent / warped the action.
The bolt was probably camming in the action when the shell wouldn't chamber and now it isn't aligned with the chamber anymore and you won't ever get any accuracy out of that rifle ever again.

Then again, you are the expert here and you are asking us for advice.

The reason why I don't aim for maximum velocity in any round is because you don't get accuracy by just making it fly as fast as you can get it to go.

The older powders in my opinion works better, because most older reloaders understands those powders and their properties and most times you can't get enough powder in the shell to cause chamber pressures beyond max.
All of this changed a number of years ago when other manufacturers came out with their own powder and used the same number or a similar number designation, and older reloaders tends not to have the very latest published reloading data and they work off formula's that were designed for the Origional IMR Dupont powder and when you use the same amount of the new powder, you end up with higher chamber pressures.

The gun is junk and it isn't even safe to sell it.
This should be a good learning lesson for anyone new out there that wants to get into reloading. Things not to do!

You forgot to include the caliber of the rifle when you made the post.
 

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willy My question is this: Could these loads have built up so much pressure that it done something to the action????[/quote said:
Obviously it did and probably the bolt as well.I think a reputable gunsmith needs to see the gun to save it if possible.You did him a huge favor and he basically blew you off until trouble came to be.Tell him the gun is broken go see your buddy.You already went way past the friendly neighbor stage.I would have had some kind of work for him to do for the dies,powder and primers.If you want to help him tell him to take any job.The big buck one he had isn't there anymore.Waiting and praying and getting lazier won't help.I had neck surgery and complained until they let me go back to work.I hope he cuts your grass for you this year.Don't count on it.Btw I'm dabbling in casting a little,perhaps you could provide me some pointers.Right now just 50 cal roundballs and .380.
 

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hum???? "Quiet before makes noise now " of course somthings different & that gun needs to go to a qualified gunsmith
in addition you should tell him to take it up with the person who reloaded the crappy rounds theres a big dfference between being kind & beeing a fool taken advantage of ---- you gave him the stuff & he couldent humor you with a lil of his time & let you show him how to do it. dosent sound like the kinda selfish inconsiderate
person I would want for a friend or neighbor
just my 2c
 

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Discussion Starter #7
A misunderstanding here:He paid me for everything i had ordered but the little bit of powder i was not going to use.
 

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in your original post you didnt state that he paid for the reloading supplies. this is why i said what i said. sorry if it upset you. was not my intensions. as some of the rest have said, he needs to take the rifle to a gunsmith and see if the gun is useable. if the gun is useable tell him to let you do his reloading.
 

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The best way to determine if the rounds fired had excess pressure is to look at the fired brass.

Bullet to rifling contact can/will raise pressure, and cause tight closing of the bolt. A improperly set sizing die can/will also cause a tight bolt when closing. I find 1/4" of bullet jam hard to believe. Depending on caliber, bullet shape, and rifle throat that much jam would require the bullet to be seated very far out. I would think that if a bullet was jammed that hard into the rifling that it would have stayed in the rifle and pulled out of the case when opening the bolt.

Sounds like there is some brass or bullet shavings wedged in the locking lug recess and/or on the lug it self. If cleaning that doesnt clean up the tight bolt. Remove the firing pin and spring and clean/inspect the spring for a crack and/or debris.


Good luck, Tony
 

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Good post and points Tony.

To say the action is junk without knowing anything more than what has been posted? I'm not sure that can be determined, until someone that knows what they're looking at you won't know if its a hot load or poor set up causing hard bolt lift.

I like helping people that are getting into reloading but only if they want to learn and listen, your neighbor doesn't sound like he wants to do either. At this point in the game I'd politely tell him him to go elsewhere.
 

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Tony300wby said:
Sounds like there is some brass or bullet shavings wedged in the locking lug recess...
Quite literally it "sounds" that way, shavings from the copper that was run up into the lands, maybe after the firing was done, normally it's shot down the barrel with the pressure.

Bolts and actions are not fragile and they are a whole world tougher than paper thin brass cartridges. The brass will become unrecognizable before the action fails. If there was bolt damage there would be MUCH more being described here other than a stiff "closing" bolt and a squeak. An overload that might bend a bolt or action will only open with tremendous hammering needed to actually rip the case apart. The brass will flow and distort like liquid and fill every possible nook, crack, and cranny, but still likely no action damage. Barrel will probably bulge before action fails. You pound up the bolt with a hammer and stick a near caliber rod down the barrel and knock the bolt back. I don't have any pics of this (pre-digital) but I have recovered from it with no damage to the gun.

In more moderate overloads the bolt is very hard to lift because the case head is pushing back hard on the bolt face. The case is unmistakably destroyed. The primer is blown out, there is an imprint of the bolt face on the case head, the ejector leaves a distinctive deep mark. You only fire it once this way to realize there is a problem that needs to be solved.

Primer disintegrated, heavy ejector mark, flattened case head



In a more typical hot load (slight overload), you may experience one or several symptoms and continue shooting if you don't see them immediately, but it's not going to damage the action. You're going to trash your brass pretty quick and if you shoot a lot of them you'll likely eat out the throat on your barrel. One or more of these may happen, bolt lift might be stiff, primers might immediately fall out (into magazine)or new ones will have no seating pressure, might be cratering around the firing pin, might be powder blowby/burns around the primer, might have a light shiny spot on the case head from the ejector, less reliable may be flattened primers (some primers are soft and always do it). If you had mics you would measure more than usual case head expansion.

Flattened primer, crater ring around firing pin mark, clear ejector mark


Powder blowby, firing pin cratering


 

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I would NOT even try to work on his gun. You have no idea what happened to it and if you give it a clean bill of health and you neighbor puts the bolt through his face you will likely feel bad and probably get sued. Tell him to take it to a gunsmith. You dont know how the neighbors buddy got the action opened.

I would take one of the loaded rounds and pull the bullet and weigh the charge though.
 

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How does a new piece of virgin brass chamber and extract? Get the headspace checked by a smith before you do anything else. Take a good look at the bolt and remove any residue or debris in it, especially the locking lugs. Spray it good with auto brake cleaner.

I do not reload for others, because of liability. But I do invite newfies to come to my loading area, and show them step by step how to do it themselves using my equipment.
 

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stoolshooter said:
I do not reload for others, because of liability. But I do invite newfies to come to my loading area, and show them step by step how to do it themselves using my equipment.
You never show someone how to reload.When you do you have taught them.When you teach/show liability is still there.If they screw up so and so said how to do it.Do I agree with it?Nope but you do have legal sharks looking for it.Sorry Willy but the thread took a left.
 

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Hiamovi said:
You never show someone how to reload.When you do you have taught them.When you teach/show liability is still there.If they screw up so and so said how to do it.Do I agree with it?Nope but you do have legal sharks looking for it.Sorry Willy but the thread took a left.
Cut me a break!! If you're experienced and teach proper methods liability is on the guy reloading. It takes common sense and a little gray matter. I don't get too upset often but this comment is [censored], go grab a spoon Rosie O'Donnell and sue faberware when you become overweight.

It takes common sense on both sides, remember, you can't polish a turd.
 

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tundragriz said:
Bolts and actions are not fragile and they are a whole world tougher than paper thin brass cartridges. The brass will become unrecognizable before the action fails. If there was bolt damage there would be MUCH more being described here other than a stiff "closing" bolt and a squeak. An overload that might bend a bolt or action will only open with tremendous hammering needed to actually rip the case apart. The brass will flow and distort like liquid and fill every possible nook, crack, and cranny, but still likely no action damage. Barrel will probably bulge before action fails. You pound up the bolt with a hammer and stick a near caliber rod down the barrel and knock the bolt back. I don't have any pics of this (pre-digital) but I have recovered from it with no damage to the gun.
I seen a 300 H&H Springfield that had a case melted/welded to the chamber. The gunsmith had to use a chamber reamer to remove it.

Good luck, Tony
 

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Hiamovi said:
stoolshooter said:
I do not reload for others, because of liability. But I do invite newfies to come to my loading area, and show them step by step how to do it themselves using my equipment.
You never show someone how to reload.When you do you have taught them.When you teach/show liability is still there.If they screw up so and so said how to do it.Do I agree with it?Nope but you do have legal sharks looking for it.Sorry Willy but the thread took a left.
that is not true.
 

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I'd be curious to know the round and the actual load data.

Any photos?
 

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Im with ya! My daughter is a new attorney and I have asked her several questions close to this. That would be like saying my mom gave her favorite recipe of potatoe salad to someone and when they fixed it someone got sick and my mom would be liable. I don't think so! On the gun issue I harly believe it is toast and I am no way a gunsmith. A Remington 700 action and barrel is hard to destroy, if anyone would of wrecked one over the years I would have. Tony made a good post if the bullet was wedged that far in lands you would of pulled the bullet when trying to unchamber. Other hand you would of probably had to take a hammer to the bolt to close it. I would start from scratch as a challenge by dismantling bolt and firing pin. Clean everything bolt and chamber, than start from beginning of sizing case properly and take from there. Its easy for everyone here to tell you how to handle your neighbor. You know the guy not us. Maybe you want to tell him to go elsewhere or give him a second chance and rub it in a little.
 
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