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How will you be turning the gas system off? If its a adjustable gas block pretty sure that will be a no no with the PGC, gun has to be modified so that it can't be switched back on easily.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
How will you be turning the gas system off? If its a adjustable gas block pretty sure that will be a no no with the PGC, gun has to be modified so that it can't be switched back on easily.
Gas system is turned off at the Superlative Arms Gas Block under the handguards.

"Pretty sure" doesn't feed the bulldog. Cite case law please.



From Title 34 Section 102 Definitions:

"Firearm." An instrument used in the propulsion of shot, shell, bullet or any other object by the action of gunpowder exploded, explosive powder, the expansion of gas or the force of a mechanical device under tension.
(1) "Automatic." Any firearm which discharges more than once with a single pull of the trigger.
(2) "Semiautomatic." Any firearm which reloads without aid of the shooter, but fires only once with a single pull of the trigger.

My pistol is a firearm. With the gas turned off my pistol is NOT, by definition of Title 34, a semi-automatic.

The section does not read "Any firearm originally designed to reload without the aid of the shooter".

If it does not reload without the aid of the shooter (which it won't with the gas turned off) it does not fit the definition of "semiautomatic" and is therefore a manually operated firearm.
 

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you can hunt now with semi's ?????
 

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that's what I thought, how are you going out for deer ??....
 

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Discussion Starter #8
that's what I thought, how are you going out for deer ??....
With the gas system on the AR-15 turned off, fired rounds must be ejected and chambered by manual operation just like a "traditional" bolt action, pump, lever or single shot rifle. Not semiautomatic with the gas system turned off.
 

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TKO, that's cool...I've been hunting with 300BO for last two seasons. I' using a bolt action I put together though. I do have a 10.5" upper as well, but haven't used it for hunting.

You have to understand that this forum is a lot of old timers that don't understand what one can do with the AR15.
 

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For the record I'm not saying that your particular interpretation of the law is wrong. My point is more are you willing to test it in Court? At best you're probably looking at more than the price of the gun in legal fees. Even if you're in the right it would probably result in a re-writting of the laws.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
What's to stop you from turning it on/off in the field? I would tread lightly
That's not the point.

Is it a semiautomatic or is it not with the gas turned off? If I am caught with it on, shame on me for hunting with a semiautomatic rifle, BUT if the gas is off, it doesn't matter what I could do . . . only what I am doing. I can do 186 mph on my liter bike, but I can only be cited IF I am actually speeding. Capability is not the same as actuality.

For the record I'm not saying that your particular interpretation of the law is wrong. My point is more are you willing to test it in Court? At best you're probably looking at more than the price of the gun in legal fees. Even if you're in the right it would probably result in a re-writting of the laws.
Yes, I am willing to test it in court. No legal fees if I represent myself . . . only fines and cost if found guilty.

If Title 34 is amended, I will always abide by the law as written.
 

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In 2009 l shot a doe with a Colt AR-15 model 6721 rifle. I took out the gas tube and put a steel plug in the gas port. It took about five minutes to convert the AR-15 to a "manually operated" rifle. I had a W.C.O. examine the conversion and he said it was legal. Unless the law has changed since 2009, this should be legal. I haven't use an AR-15 to hunt deer since 2009. If I was thinking about using an AR for deer season, I would certainly show the W.C.O. the conversion to see if it was still legal. Doc in Pa
 

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Discussion Starter #16
In 2009 l shot a doe with a Colt AR-15 model 6721 rifle. I took out the gas tube and put a steel plug in the gas port. It took about five minutes to convert the AR-15 to a "manually operated" rifle. I had a W.C.O. examine the conversion and he said it was legal. Unless the law has changed since 2009, this should be legal. I haven't use an AR-15 to hunt deer since 2009. If I was thinking about using an AR for deer season, I would certainly show the W.C.O. the conversion to see if it was still legal. Doc in Pa
Doc,

Pretty ingenious conversion. How did you seat the plug?

The .223 has accounted for three deer in my household. Two with Trophy Bonded Bearclaws and one with a Nosler Partition. None of them made it over 30 yards after the shot. Little hole going in and nickel size hole coming out. Never more than one shot needed. The rifle was my Dad's old Model 70A originally chambered in .222 and, subsequently re-chambered to .223
 

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TKO, After I removed the gas tube, I had a gunsmith (who at the time was an active Deputy W.C.O.) make me a two inch steel plug the same diameter as the gas tube. He drilled a hole near the tip of the steel plug so he could use a roll pin to sucure the steel plug to the gas port. This way you could convert the AR back to semiauto . If you were in the field with the plug installed, the only way you could convert the rifle back to a semi is to take off the forearm, use a tiny punch to remove the roll pin from the plug, install the gas tube, roll pin the gas tube, and install the forearm. As for the hunt, I used a Federal factory 60 gr. Nosler partition for a 60 yard neck shot. She dropped like a rock. I hope this helps. Doc in Pa
 

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Better check with the PGC before making a decision to use it. Don't know if it's still this way, but years ago it was that the recoil system had to be permanantly altered so it could not be re-converted to semi. Also, I don't think suppressors have been passed for hunting yet? Might be wrong on this though.
 

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A Semi is still a Semi no matter what temporary modification you add. The weapon has to be permantly altered to become legal. Temporary mods can be changed in the field. As to the gunsmith/WCO, he must have had his gunsmith hat on that day. Instead of playing word games to try a skirt the law. Why not wait for semis to become legal.

As far as suppressor, if you legally own it you can hunt with it in Pa. There is nothing in the game laws that prohibit use of a suppressor.
 

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Better check with the PGC before making a decision to use it. Don't know if it's still this way, but years ago it was that the recoil system had to be permanantly altered so it could not be re-converted to semi. Also, I don't think suppressors have been passed for hunting yet? Might be wrong on this though.
The AR-15 is not a recoil operated system. It is a direct impingement gas system.

Hunting with a suppressor is legal in Pennsylvania.

... The weapon has to be permantly altered to become legal. Show me this in black and white print. Do you have case law to back it up? Temporary mods can be changed in the field. And, if they are, THEN it falls under the definition of semiautomatic otherwise it is manually operated because it is no longer a "firearm which reloads without aid of the shooter". Instead of playing word games to try a skirt the law. Why not wait for semis to become legal. I am not trying to skirt anything. The definition is what it is.

We will just have to agree to disagree.
 
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