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As a farmer, a hunter and a timber land owner I see the problem from different sides. Just my observation but I'll tell you the biggest problem is posted land that
A) No body is allowed to hunt at all.
or
B) Posted land that one or two bow hunters hunt bucks on and never shoot antlerless deer.

Pa land is being cut into smaller and smaller parcels. A guy buys 10 or 20 acres and has his own little wild life preserve. Nobody hunts it but him and maybe a friend or relative. Or a family buys a home with 5 or 15 acre and nobody hunts it at all. Hunters that are hunting bucks only don't do any body any favors.
Somebody, I dont recall who, said that he figures he has like 8 deer living on his 150 acres. My friend even if you have lousy deer habitat you have more deer than that. By a long chalk.

We shoot anterless deer on my lands every year. So do the neighbors. On the first day of deer season my woods looks like a pumpkin patch with orange coats every where. And we never seem to make a dent in the deer herd. We keep trying and have a ball doing it.

How is the Game commission supposed to keep deer numbers where they should be when the hunters and land owners don't allow access to hunters that would fill antlerless tags? Ask any farmer around here if you can bow hunt and he will likley tell you no. Ask him if you can fill some of your anterless tags and you will likely be shown the best spots on his land.
 

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Step farther. ;)
I see your point and understand what you mean. But the fact is you can only hunt INTO a woods halfway. One step more and your on your way out. Not all that much private land that has tracts really that big here in Pa.
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
So the real crux of the whole thing is that he shooting “your” deer?
No, that is not the crux of the matter.... a lot of the neighboring hunting camps are upset that the tree farm, never said anything about his issues with deer. The land is listed under hunter access, but no one knew it. You cannot see the property from the main road, so you can't see any notice signs.
We feel bad for his losses, but we are also have a substantial investment in our hunting camp. We pay over $7K per year mortgage, $1500 a year in taxes, spend several hundred a year on food plots and seedlings ($4k in farm equipment this year), hundreds on maintenance, utilities etc. The prime focus of our camp is deer hunting, so if the deer numbers are reduced significantly are we wasting our money and efforts? It seems awful easy for them to get a lot of red tags for the size of their operation without consideration of neighboring hunting camps.
We don't have to kill a bunch of deer every year to call our season a sucess, we enjoy each others company, mentoring youths, being in the outdoors, etc. It is much more enjoyable when you are seeing deer.
 

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No, that is not the crux of the matter.... a lot of the neighboring hunting camps are upset that the tree farm, never said anything about his issues with deer. The land is listed under hunter access, but no one knew it. You cannot see the property from the main road, so you can't see any notice signs.
We feel bad for his losses, but we are also have a substantial investment in our hunting camp. We pay over $7K per year mortgage, $1500 a year in taxes, spend several hundred a year on food plots and seedlings ($4k in farm equipment this year), hundreds on maintenance, utilities etc. The prime focus of our camp is deer hunting, so if the deer numbers are reduced significantly are we wasting our money and efforts? It seems awful easy for them to get a lot of red tags for the size of their operation without consideration of neighboring hunting camps.
We don't have to kill a bunch of deer every year to call our season a sucess, we enjoy each others company, mentoring youths, being in the outdoors, etc. It is much more enjoyable when you are seeing deer.
Sounds like his trees are better than your food plots. Maybe you should plant trees instead. The part that does not add up is you imply not seeing deer. But then you also say a guy put a tree farm in deer country. If you are in deer country then why all the expenses on the food plots,etc? The more you seem to explain the worse your bitterness appears to show.
 

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if you have enough property you have to create food plots and security cover. security cover is an area where the deer feel safe enough to stay there and NO ONE EVER GOES IN, NOT EVEN TO HUNT IT. its a spot that only the deer have access to. then the deer will live on your land. (for the most part :) )
 

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SRA'S still have problems because they allow buck hunting outside of the rest of the states seasons, guys are buck hunting and not removing doe. Bucks are not dropping 2 or 3 fawns a year, doe are.
 

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where the deer feel safe enough to stay there and NO ONE EVER GOES IN, NOT EVEN TO HUNT IT. its a spot that only the deer have access to.
Safe spots for deer? Bo, you got to be kidding me. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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4D at 32 deer per sq mile seems way off. Our property is 0,5sq miles if I measured on GIS correctly. So it's telling me I only have 16 deer on a couple hundred acre parcel? If that's the case I think I may just end my career :ROFLMAO:

When November and December role around we have well over 100 deer on our land. Maybe even closer to 150. Right now I'd say we have about 1 deer per sq mile though lol
 

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I guess what we need to keep in mind is these deer per square mile are averages. I also live in 4D and agree the number sure seems higher on most of the private land but if you go onto most public in 4D you would be hard pressed to find 32 deer square mile.
 

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My part of 3A near the NY line, has far more deer per square mile, than what that chart estimated. Perfect mix of Ag, big woods and large wood lots. Not unusual to see more than that out feeding in less than half a square mile. And it's still increasing, year after year. Local deer numbers exceed 60 to 80 deer per square mile.

I can take my own camp land and surrounding fields/woods and see over a dozen deer out each evening on less than 100 acres. Two weeks ago that was the case when I was up for five days. Farther up the valley one goes, more deer to be seen. Fawn recruitment has been excellent the past several years, despite 'yotes and bears.

Granted, farther south in 3A where the SF and SGLs are found, not so much?

Simple explanation: Great numbers of deer are not going to be found in predominantly just big woods areas like SFs and SGLs tend to be, compared to areas with plenty of agriculture and surrounding woods.

Someone I know up there, has over a hundred acres of field corn and grew a quarter acre of sweet corn this year, closer to the home place. While the deer still hammer his corn fields, they decimated his sweet corn patch. He might wanta fence the sweet corn next year?

:)
 

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Good article and if it's not a scathing indictment of the mismanagement of the deer herd, I don't know what is. From this chair, the biologists bend more to politics than science.
The biologists don't have the decision-making power. It's the commissioners that do the political bending.
 
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No, that is not the crux of the matter.... a lot of the neighboring hunting camps are upset that the tree farm, never said anything about his issues with deer. The land is listed under hunter access, but no one knew it. You cannot see the property from the main road, so you can't see any notice signs.
We feel bad for his losses, but we are also have a substantial investment in our hunting camp. We pay over $7K per year mortgage, $1500 a year in taxes, spend several hundred a year on food plots and seedlings ($4k in farm equipment this year), hundreds on maintenance, utilities etc. The prime focus of our camp is deer hunting, so if the deer numbers are reduced significantly are we wasting our money and efforts? It seems awful easy for them to get a lot of red tags for the size of their operation without consideration of neighboring hunting camps.
We don't have to kill a bunch of deer every year to call our season a sucess, we enjoy each others company, mentoring youths, being in the outdoors, etc. It is much more enjoyable when you are seeing deer.
There ya go, double down on that sense of entitlement. You ain't scared. Upset that the tree farmer never said anything about deer issues? LOL, was he supposed to send y'all a newsletter? You allege the land is listed under Hunter Acess but "no one knew it" yet you just told us it's listed so... So the tree farm, is just a tree farm and doesn't manage for more deer but they killed 26 does on the farm. I think you said you have 150 acres and you manage it for deer and put in food plots and seedlings, etc but you claim you only have 5-8 deer total living on your land? Either your habitat management is poor or you have a lot more deer in that area than you realize.
 

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Been my experience over many years, that anecdotal deer estimates by hunters are seldom accurate.

Even with the huge numbers of deer in areas near my camp, I still hear some hunters grumble each season, that there aren't any deer around. Simply because wherever they were, they didn't personally see as many deer as they wanted to see.

In our area, with plenty of fields and pastures, fewer hunters moving deer like they once did, means fewer deer to be seen out in the open? Figure that holds true in many areas these days, as driving has given way to stand sitting.
 

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There ya go, double down on that sense of entitlement. You ain't scared. Upset that the tree farmer never said anything about deer issues? LOL, was he supposed to send y'all a newsletter? You allege the land is listed under Hunter Acess but "no one knew it" yet you just told us it's listed so... So the tree farm, is just a tree farm and doesn't manage for more deer but they killed 26 does on the farm. I think you said you have 150 acres and you manage it for deer and put in food plots and seedlings, etc but you claim you only have 5-8 deer total living on your land? Either your habitat management is poor or you have a lot more deer in that area than you realize.
I find it telling that the complaint is how much the camp owners pay for mortgage, taxes and seed for food plots each year on the camp in order to have more deer for recreation, but give no importance to the same money spent by the tree farmer and he probably has labor costs as well to raise and market his Christmas trees , and he is doing it to make a living..
 
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