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Discussion Starter #1
A 2.4-magnitude earthquake hit parts of Girard and the North Side of Youngstown about 6:25 a.m. Saturday.

The U.S. Geological Survey said the quake was centered near the D & L Energy Inc. brine injection well that is being studied as the possible culprit to the cluster of minor earthquakes that have plagued the area since last March, according to Tribune news partner WYTV.

The Ohio Department of Natural Resources, which regulates brine injection wells, has said no proof yet exists linking the well to the quakes, but is eyeing the plugging procedure as a precaution.

According to data on the USGS website, the tremor was felt as far away as Canfield and could also be felt in Niles and Warren. There were no reports of damage or injuries.

Saturday's event is the latest in a series of small area earthquakes since March.

The first quakes of the year <u>were also the first earthquakes in historic times centered at Youngstown and in Mahoning County</u>. According to the ODNR, on March 17 magnitude 2.1 and 2.6 quakes rattled the Youngstown and Austintown areas.

The ground went silent for a few months, but temblors have been felt at least once a month since August, according to ODNR. The strongest was a 2.7-magnitude quake in September; the weakest was the 2.1-magnitude March quake.

2011 Mahoning Valley earthquakes:
March 17: Magnitude 2.1 and 2.6
Aug. 22: Magnitude 2.2
Aug. 25: Magnitude 2.4
Sept. 2: Magnitude 2.2
Sept. 26: Magnitude 2.6
Sept 29: Magnitude 2.7
Oct. 20: Magnitude 2.3
Nov. 25: Magnitude 2.2
Dec. 24: Magnitude 2.4

Source: Ohio Department of Natural Resources

http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/565792/Small-quake-rattles-area.html?nav=5021
 

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http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-11-09/markets/30376837_1_injection-wells-rma-natural-gas

The Environmental Protection Agency’s July 2001 87 page study, “Technical Program Overview: Underground Injection Control Regulations EPA 816-r-02-025,” which reported, “In 1967, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) determined that a deep, hazardous waste disposal well at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal was causing significant seismic events in the vicinity of Denver, Colorado.”
 

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zhuntman said:
A 2.4-magnitude earthquake hit parts of Girard and the North Side of Youngstown about 6:25 a.m. Saturday.

The U.S. Geological Survey said the quake was centered near the D & L Energy Inc. brine injection well that is being studied as the possible culprit to the cluster of minor earthquakes that have plagued the area since last March, according to Tribune news partner WYTV.

The Ohio Department of Natural Resources, which regulates brine injection wells, has said no proof yet exists linking the well to the quakes, but is eyeing the plugging procedure as a precaution.

According to data on the USGS website, the tremor was felt as far away as Canfield and could also be felt in Niles and Warren. There were no reports of damage or injuries.

Saturday's event is the latest in a series of small area earthquakes since March.

The first quakes of the year were also the first earthquakes in historic times centered at Youngstown and in Mahoning County. According to the ODNR, on March 17 magnitude 2.1 and 2.6 quakes rattled the Youngstown and Austintown areas.

The ground went silent for a few months, but temblors have been felt at least once a month since August, according to ODNR. The strongest was a 2.7-magnitude quake in September; the weakest was the 2.1-magnitude March quake.

2011 Mahoning Valley earthquakes:
March 17: Magnitude 2.1 and 2.6
Aug. 22: Magnitude 2.2
Aug. 25: Magnitude 2.4
Sept. 2: Magnitude 2.2
Sept. 26: Magnitude 2.6
Sept 29: Magnitude 2.7
Oct. 20: Magnitude 2.3
Nov. 25: Magnitude 2.2
Dec. 24: Magnitude 2.4

Source: Ohio Department of Natural Resources

http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/565792/Small-quake-rattles-area.html?nav=5021

The Ohio Department of Natural Resources, which regulates brine injection wells, has said no proof yet exists linking the well to the quakes

No matter how hard the newspapers wish, there is no proof of any connection to the two. Ohio has had underground injection wells for many years.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
1trueamerican said:
zhuntman said:
A 2.4-magnitude earthquake hit parts of Girard and the North Side of Youngstown about 6:25 a.m. Saturday.

The U.S. Geological Survey said the quake was centered near the D & L Energy Inc. brine injection well that is being studied as the possible culprit to the cluster of minor earthquakes that have plagued the area since last March, according to Tribune news partner WYTV.

The Ohio Department of Natural Resources, which regulates brine injection wells, has said no proof yet exists linking the well to the quakes, but is eyeing the plugging procedure as a precaution.

According to data on the USGS website, the tremor was felt as far away as Canfield and could also be felt in Niles and Warren. There were no reports of damage or injuries.

Saturday's event is the latest in a series of small area earthquakes since March.

The first quakes of the year were also the first earthquakes in historic times centered at Youngstown and in Mahoning County. According to the ODNR, on March 17 magnitude 2.1 and 2.6 quakes rattled the Youngstown and Austintown areas.

The ground went silent for a few months, but temblors have been felt at least once a month since August, according to ODNR. The strongest was a 2.7-magnitude quake in September; the weakest was the 2.1-magnitude March quake.

2011 Mahoning Valley earthquakes:
March 17: Magnitude 2.1 and 2.6
Aug. 22: Magnitude 2.2
Aug. 25: Magnitude 2.4
Sept. 2: Magnitude 2.2
Sept. 26: Magnitude 2.6
Sept 29: Magnitude 2.7
Oct. 20: Magnitude 2.3
Nov. 25: Magnitude 2.2
Dec. 24: Magnitude 2.4

Source: Ohio Department of Natural Resources

http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/565792/Small-quake-rattles-area.html?nav=5021

The Ohio Department of Natural Resources, which regulates brine injection wells, has said no proof yet exists linking the well to the quakes

No matter how hard the newspapers wish, there is no proof of any connection to the two. Ohio has had underground injection wells for many years.
This paper is as pro well drilling as you can get. They are just reporting the facts. These quakes occurred and have NEVER happened in this area before. The data is from the USGS. I'm not sure how you get 100% proof of causation other than the epicenter was near the well which is true in this case. This is just the beginning. Stay tuned. Drilling needs to be done responsibly and with more safeguards IMO. It's seems to be happening too fast in Ohio.
 

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1trueamerican said:
zhuntman said:
A 2.4-magnitude earthquake hit parts of Girard and the North Side of Youngstown about 6:25 a.m. Saturday.

u][/b]

No matter how hard the newspapers wish, there is no proof of any connection to the two. Ohio has had underground injection wells for many years.
The science connecting injection wells and earthquakes is pretty solid, McGarr said. There are documented case in Texas, California, OHIO, England, Germany and Switzerland. In one of the best documented cases, a deep injection well at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal near Denver caused a series of earthquakes in the 1960s.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2011/11/12/2099938/scientists-search-for-link-between.html#storylink=cpy

and from the USGS:
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/faq/?categoryID=1&faqID=1


Q: Can we cause earthquakes? Is there any way to prevent earthquakes?

A: Earthquakes induced by human activity have been documented in a few locations in the United States, Japan, and Canada. The cause was injection of fluids into deep wells for waste disposal
 

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g17 said:
1trueamerican said:
zhuntman said:
A 2.4-magnitude earthquake hit parts of Girard and the North Side of Youngstown about 6:25 a.m. Saturday.

u][/b]

No matter how hard the newspapers wish, there is no proof of any connection to the two. Ohio has had underground injection wells for many years.
The science connecting injection wells and earthquakes is pretty solid, McGarr said. There are documented case in Texas, California, OHIO, England, Germany and Switzerland. In one of the best documented cases, a deep injection well at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal near Denver caused a series of earthquakes in the 1960s.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2011/11/12/2099938/scientists-search-for-link-between.html#storylink=cpy

and from the USGS:
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/faq/?categoryID=1&faqID=1


Q: Can we cause earthquakes? Is there any way to prevent earthquakes?

A: Earthquakes induced by human activity have been documented in a few locations in the United States, Japan, and Canada. The cause was injection of fluids into deep wells for waste disposal
From the USGS website

In the past 20 years seismographs increased from 350 to more than 8000. we see many more and learn about them quickly.
I also saw a map that shows that there were earthquakes in the past 7 days in the eastern US. Two of the three have no disposal wells near them.
I just don't see how you can come to this conclusion.
 

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1trueamerican said:
g17 said:
1trueamerican said:
zhuntman said:
A 2.4-magnitude earthquake hit parts of Girard and the North Side of Youngstown about 6:25 a.m. Saturday.

u][/b]

No matter how hard the newspapers wish, there is no proof of any connection to the two. Ohio has had underground injection wells for many years.
The science connecting injection wells and earthquakes is pretty solid, McGarr said. There are documented case in Texas, California, OHIO, England, Germany and Switzerland. In one of the best documented cases, a deep injection well at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal near Denver caused a series of earthquakes in the 1960s.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2011/11/12/2099938/scientists-search-for-link-between.html#storylink=cpy

and from the USGS:
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/faq/?categoryID=1&faqID=1


Q: Can we cause earthquakes? Is there any way to prevent earthquakes?

A: Earthquakes induced by human activity have been documented in a few locations in the United States, Japan, and Canada. The cause was injection of fluids into deep wells for waste disposal
From the USGS website

In the past 20 years seismographs increased from 350 to more than 8000. we see many more and learn about them quickly.
I also saw a map that shows that there were earthquakes in the past 7 days in the eastern US. Two of the three have no disposal wells near them.
I just don't see how you can come to this conclusion.
The link you provided states the number of seismograph stations has increased over an 80 year period, not the 20 you are stating. 1931 - present...

As to coming to the conclusion that injections sites cause earthquakes, it's quite simple actually. The United States Geological Survey and The United States Army Corps of Engineers have both stated deep well fluid injection sites have led to earthquakes. Neither has said they cause ALL earthquakes so attempting to divert attention to earthquakes in other areas still doesn't change the facts.

Are you actually trying to say you are correct and both the USGS and Corps of Engineers are wrong?
 

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You are right and I was wrong about the 80 years versus 20. But it doesn't really matter because the outcome is the same. They can see more small earthquakes now than in the past and word about the quakes gets around faster. And then the anti's pick up on it and run with it.

They claim they CAN cause earthquakes, neither have said that injection wells caused the Ohio quakes. I just don't always buy what Govt. entities are selling.
 

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1trueamerican said:
They claim they CAN cause earthquakes, neither have said that injection wells caused the Ohio quakes. I just don't always buy what Govt. entities are selling.
That statement is inaccurate as well. The USGS as shown below says some DO cause earthquakes, no Can about it. As a 'scientist' you should know the difference.

As to the recent Ohio earthquakes, they are still under study as you know.

As to not buying govt entities, do you have research showing otherwise or are your statements simply conjecture on your part?

from the USGS:
Q: Can we cause earthquakes? Is there any way to prevent earthquakes?

A: Earthquakes induced by human activity have been documented in a few locations in the United States, Japan, and Canada. The cause was injection of fluids into deep wells for waste disposal
 

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I live about 20 miles from Girard. There are a couple of other injection wells in the area. The ODNR has started monitoring the wells for seismic activity.

OUNGSTOWN

The Ohio Department of Natural Resources says there are new seismographs near a brine injection well in Youngstown that will help to determine if the well is causing minor earthquakes.

Andy Ware, a deputy director at ODNR, told The Vindicator the state environmental regulator has entrusted the Lamont- Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia University to set up the seismographs in the Mahoning Valley.

The Lamont-Doherty Cooperative Seismographic Network was the organization that first reported a magnitude 2.1 earthquake Nov. 25, which had an epicenter just a few blocks from a D&L Energy Inc. brine injection well.

Brine is a byproduct of fracking, a process in which water, chemicals and sand are blasted into rocks thousands of feet below the ground to unlock natural oil and gas.

“ODNR is very closely monitoring and will continue to monitor the seismic events in the Youngstown well area,” Ware said. “This equipment will be able to provide us with immediate reporting and accurate analysis of an event’s epicenter.”

Lamont-Doherty has set up four “valuable” seismograph devices on private land in quadrants surrounding the well, Ware said.

The locations of the seismographs are not being disclosed.

The area now has five seismographs; the fifth, part of the Ohio Seismic Network, is at Youngstown State University.

The technology will be used to determine with accuracy an earthquake’s depth, should there be another temblor.

Seismologists say earthquake depth can be determined by a seismograph, but multiple stations are needed to pinpoint precise depths.

The Nov. 25 earthquake was the eighth with an epicenter in Mahoning County; all have occurred this year, after a magnitude 2.6 earthquake March 17.

Seven of those earthquakes had epicenters near the D&L well, on Ohio Works Drive on the city’s West Side.

It’s depth, like the seven other Valley quakes this year, is estimated about 7,500 feet below the bottom of the D&L well.

Injection wells have been known to cause earthquakes in some instances, such as in Colorado’s Rangely Oil Fields in the 1960s, geologists have said.

Pressure increases at the D&L Youngstown site have preceded some of the earthquakes, according to ODNR documents acquired by The Vindicator.

The well can inject brine at a maximum of 2,500 pounds per square inch.

D&L did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Ware said ODNR also has increased the number of inspections and unannounced inspections at injection well sites.

State Rep. Robert F. Hagan, D-60th, who has previously called for a moratorium on all drilling-related activity, said the addition of the seismographs are a “great first start.”

“Do we have more to do? Yes,” Hagan told The Vindicator. “We will continue to get out to the people of this Valley all the information that will be needed to make sure we are drilling and injecting in a safe and reliable way.”

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/dec/07/seismic-devices-to-watch-dampl-well/
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I live in Niles, Oh and I can give a first hand report. There was another earthquake just a short time ago. My TV and lamps were shaking. I looked it up and it was a 4.0. It was centered (you guessed it) in the same area as the others. The others were within 2 miles of the suspect injection well. This one looks like it's in the same spot.

Ironically this article was in the local paper this morning:

YOUNGSTOWN - A fluid injection well here has been shut down through an agreement between the Ohio Department of Natural Resources and the well's owner following a series of earthquakes.

The well is located on the property of D&L Energy Group property, 2761 Salt Springs Road. It is owned and permitted by Northstar Disposal Services LLC of Youngstown.

ODNR Director James Zehringer said there is no conclusive evidence linking the seismic activity to the well, but the agency is taking a cautious approach...

https://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/566016/Well-near-quakes-idled.html?nav=5358
 

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Obi Wan: "These aren't the droids you're looking for...move along."

Storm Trooper 1: "These aren't the droids we're looking for...let's move along!"

Of course these quakes aren't caused by drilling...
 
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