[willyp]

Why do so many folks have to load their guns to Maximum loads?
I have not seen a gun that will be consistent with a full charge? If your gun is then you have a rare one in your hands !
What are you planning on hunting with it or how far are you going to try to shoot at something that in needs it ?
Our inlines shoot 70 or 75 grains to maybe 90 grains of loose powder and shoot very well and have taken deer as far as 100 yards! As far as that goes out Flintlocks are the same way !

 

[Blue Bird]

Because many people are stupid, and believe the crap that other stupid people tell them.

I use 80 grains of ffg in my .54 caliber flintlock, under a 225 grain round ball. I've had guys look at me funny and when asked if I hunt with this load, and I say yes. They immediately mention that unless you load at least 100-110 grains of powder you can't kill a deer. I simply laugh and go about my business. Those guys IMO are idiots. There's no other way to describe them.

 

[Deuce280]

I used to over load my TC pa hunter carbine back in the days before I knew much about muzzleloader. Can't remember for sure but I believe I was using 90 grain of 2f. Went to the range one day when there was snow on the ground. After two shots I notice a three foot long black streak in the snow in front of my bench. Unburnt powder! Obviously loading more powder than could be burnt up before the ball exited the short barrel. Nothing short of a waste of powder. After some research and experimenting, I cut the load back to 60 grains and ended up with much better groups and no more Unburnt powder!

 

[BuckskinMtnMan]

Lack of guidance basically.

All the inline manfs. rate their guns at 150 grains of pellets or powder and when someone calls, they tell them to use this bullet, powder, etc.

 

[Mad_Jack]

I have a .54 Colerain swamped, 44" C weight bbl on my early Lancaster style rifle. I use .75 grains of FFg Goex, .015 cotton precut patches and .530 Hornady balls. It produces 2,5" groups at 100 yds from a rest on the bench. At 80 grains and up the pattern spreads. @ 25 to 40 yards there isn't much difference to see, but it starts spreading after that. I'd rather hit what I shoot at once rather than having to take follow up shots. I'm now 70 years old and have had to reconfigure my shooting style to hold steady for offhand. Hunting demand you be considerate and take the good shoots as rested of steady as possible to dispatch your game expediently.
It riles me to NO END when I go to the range
the Saturday and/or Sunday before the PA primitive deer season. Most time I go to offer info and take the discarded flints that those on day flintlock shooter can't make fire the weapon. Most of those flints just need knapped or dressed up. I will offer help to dress up flints, but usually get the NO THANKS response. So when the get pitched, I get my supply enriched. My best weekend ever was 37 flints on Sat & Sun in 1997. I can't remember the last time I paid for a flint.

 

[Mad_Jack]

Powder discs blow out the barrel while still burning, and ends up, somewhere erratically down range. Loose powder flies out and scatters falling closer. If you lay out an old light colored sheet you can check anytime. Then shoot from a prone position with the barrel level. Best to do this when there is snow on the ground. Shoot your load down range. Then check the snow for pepper (black powder that didn't burn but fell onto the snow). in-lines have the wad fly out and burns out of the barrel. To see that you need a high speed video cam, and you WILL see a burning wad leave the muzzle. That powder/wad burning outside the barrel is a loss of pressure and waste of energy and $$$$$. A barrel length will only allow so much pressure. To much powder/pressure and it will either waste powder/pressure or blowup in your face and hands. My best advice is work up your best ACCURACY LOAD.:wink2:

 

[410-er]

We are in a "Magnum" society.Everyone thinks "More is better".I'm killing deer with no problem with 45's cal. and 50grs.
Often the thought is if you hit it,but didn't get it,you need more punch.In reality you need to be able to hit what you aim at with that FIRST shot out of a clean bore.NOT the 2,3 or 4th shot.
I'm amazed when someone says they had hit one in the lungs/heart and it ran 300+ yds and got away.
A deer shot in the heart or lungs will not live longer than 7 seconds.
Remember. . . . . .NOTHING lives with a hole in the heart OR lungs no matter how big,how small the caliber,or how much powder is burned!

 

[Blue Bird]

We are in a "Magnum" society.Everyone thinks "More is better".I'm killing deer with no problem with 45's cal. and 50grs.
Often the thought is if you hit it,but didn't get it,you need more punch.In reality you need to be able to hit what you aim at with that FIRST shot out of a clean bore.NOT the 2,3 or 4th shot.
I'm amazed when someone says they had hit one in the lungs/heart and it ran 300+ yds and got away.
A deer shot in the heart or lungs will not live longer than 7 seconds.
Remember. . . . . .NOTHING lives with a hole in the heart OR lungs no matter how big,how small the caliber,or how much powder is burned!

And to expand on this a little, most people think they need to see an exit hole in a deer, which to them means they've got a powerful load. And to an extent they're right, however the power they think is killing the deer more quickly, is not, its actually being wasted. For once the ball exits the deer, then no more energy is being expended inside the animal. Sure, you could argue that two holes are better than one, but in reality, one entry wound with the ball lodged on the opposite side of the hit, is probably going to bring down that deer much faster, since all the energy of the shot was expended inside the deer, which undoubtedly will do more internal damage than a pass through shot would.

 

[bob1961]

my .50 T/C hawken liked 70 grs of fff with a .490 rb, that is the same powder load I used for the .45 sabots and also the great plains bullet I think it was 365 grs....all 3 bullets shot at the POA so I didn't need to carry anything other then 70 grain loads....I shot one shot of each at 100 yards and all were within 3" of each other with the sabot dead center in the bulls eye....

 

[tdd]

So, a few observations.

1- please don't call people, even in generalities, "idiots" or "stupid" for doing something you don't. Just not cool.

2- Why do it? You may be surprised why. I shoot 120gr in my 62-cal. Why? Not because I think deer require that for killing. I do that because that's where my barrel shoots well, and where my sights regulated and where I got a trajectory I was happy with. Essentially, it's max rise is about 2" at 50 yards, and it's about an inch low at 100. Yes, I verified that with shooting into paper at the range. So I can point and shoot without thinking to 100 yards. That's why I shoot that charge.

3- not wanting the ball to exit... Wasted energy? I guess I don't see why anyone cares if it's wasted? It will take X amount of force to push a given size lead ball through a deer. If the ball doesn't have that amount of force, it won't exit. If it has that much or more, it'll exit. I don't buy into the idea that the ball/bullet that doesn't exit delivers MORE energy. It simply didn't HAVE enough to get out the other side. For tracking purposes, I want the deer to leak as much as possible. Are all shots broadside? I'd like them to be, but that ain't always so. I shot one this past January that was not oriented as I thought she was. THANK GOD that ball exited, because the hit, while spot on with where I held, wasn't the most ideal shot placement for how the deer stood, and the two holes helped me find that deer. Stuff happens when you hunt live critters. Two holes help find dead deer. I've killed enough and helped find enough for others where one of the holes was plugged with fat/organs/etc that it was essentially NOT a hole. If that was the ONLY hole...and I've found a few of those....the track job is not fun. It's real work sometimes.


To me, if I find something that works as I noted on my 62's load above, I don't care about the powder, wherever it winds up being for charge weight. Only way you know what's in my charge is if I tell you, so I don't see how it's a badge of honor to shoot a lot or a little. While Magnumitis is real, anti-magnumitis is JUST AS REAL. There's a mentality that says "you don't need [insert rifle caliber, powder charge, bow draw weight, optic brand, etc here] to kill deer, and I'm gonna prove it by shooting [insert example small caliber, charge, etc here]." Ok, cool. If you're killing 'em clean, go to it. I don't really care and don't use it to judge you as a hunter. It is what it is. If it's workin' for ya, I'm in no position to tell you it's wrong.

So why do we do that to each other? Why do we say "gee, bud, you're really dumb for shooting [insert whatever topic du jour here]. You don't need that to kill deer." Why? Who flippin' cares?

Powder is cheap when compared to all the other things we do to hunt.....when I find what works for me and my rifle, I use it. I don't give a rip about how much powder I use. It's not 1760. I don't have to REALLY worry about powder, do I? Sure, I might not be able to get it at 8pm the night before the season, and I might have to plan ahead and buy with some planning involved, but really...is powder charge weight going to take someone out of hunting because they shot...what...20 gr more than maybe what they could have used? I just can't see that being true.

I guess I'm the weird one, but seriously...why on earth does anyone care what the next guy uses? Sure, you could ask and maybe learn from what others use, but if it's not for you, then move along. Why judge their decisions?

 

[410-er]

The MOST important factor is "BEING ABLE TO HIT WHAT YOU AIM AT WITH THE 1ST SHOT!" regardless of amount of powder or projectile.
We OWE that to the animal we hunt!
Muzzys often have "2" sweet spots when it comes to powder amounts/tight groups.A high powder amount and a low powder amount.
I have a 58 cal TC Big Boar that likes 120grs.I have not worked up a LOW charge load yet.
Killed deer with 58,54,50,and 45's.Powder from 120grs down to 50grs.Maxis and RB's.NONE was any more dead than the other.Hit them in the heart/lungs and they die!
A guy from a muzzy form did experiment and found they have a tendency to "DROP" when liver shot.He also has killed deer in his state with the 32 cal muzzy.He also killed deer with double ball loads and found NO advantage to being double hit.Both RB's were within 2" of each other on the deer.
Bottom line is hit'em right!