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Now that the campaign rhetoric and BS are over, back to the cold, hard, truth.


<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">..Markets Plummet After Obama Victory Puts ‘Fiscal Cliff’ in Focus</span></span>

<span style="font-style: italic">..By Aaron Task

Stocks fell sharply Wednesday morning with the Dow down 300 points and trading below 13,000 for the first time since early August. In recent trading, the Dow was down 2.6% to 12,907 while the S&P 500 Index was off 2.7% to 1391.

Coming on the heels of Tuesday's reelection of Barack Obama, the decline could be viewed as a "sell the news" reaction to what most on Wall Street expected. Others claim the market is showing its displeasure with the incumbent, even though the S&P is up more than 50% since Obama took office in 2009.

"I'm not so real convinced this is some kind of reaction to Obama reelection," says my Breakout colleague Jeff Macke. "If you bet on the favorite which is what Obama was you don't get to gloat after. The market expected this."

Rather than the election news, stocks are taking their cues from those time-tested catalysts: Europe's debt crisis and the dollar.

Ahead of a critical austerity vote in Greece, European bourses and the euro were down sharply Wednesday. Cautious comments by ECB President Mario Draghi about Germany's economy and the European Commission cutting its growth forecast for the eurozone to just 0.1% for 2013 vs. 1% in May cast a further pall on the continent.

In response, the euro hit a two-month low at $1.2734 and the U.S. Dollar index hit a two-month high. Generally speaking, so-called risk assets such as stocks and commodities have been moving in opposition to the dollar, so dollar strength is the enemy of the bulls -- at least for now.

Markets are also trading on the prospects of a resolution for the so-called fiscal cliff.

As I discuss in the accompanying video with Macke, Henry Blodget and Michael Santoli, the market is fearful that Obama's reelection means a continued stalemate in Washington, where the Republicans maintain control of the House.

House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) is expected to give a statement this afternoon that will call on both sides to seek "common ground," The Hill reports.

But with President Obama already saying he'll veto any agreement that doesn't raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans — one of his key campaign promises — and Republicans saying they won't agree to any tax hikes (period), it's hard to see a consensus emerging anytime soon.

The consensus remains that some deal will be reached prior to Dec. 31 -- when automatic spending cuts and tax hike take effect.

"This is not an organic economic or budget problem, it's self created by Congress; therefore it can be deferred," Santoli says. "But ultimately, a deal is the only thing that's possible whether after a cliff, before a cliff or instead of a cliff. It's just a matter of what mixture of negative outcomes we're going to have to swallow."

With two sides seemingly still very far apart and the calendar getting short, market participants are getting a sample of the bitter pill they'd have to swallow, even if Europe wasn't starting to come unraveled yet again.</span>
 

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It's time for the rubber to meet the road and see if throughout all his campaign BS and rhetoric about needing 4 more years to "get it done", Obummer will actually come through despite his assurances last election if he didn't do it in the first 4 there wouldn't be a second.

Frankly I'm doubtful, and if he can't find some way to cross party lines in dealing with the budget, he is quite content to let Rome burn and blame it on "the obstuctionist GOPers in the House" which the slimetream meia will certainly support.

PS ... Can't blame Bush this time the last 4 years belong to him, but I'm sure he'll try.
PPS ... I hope I was dead wrong and he does pull the economy out of the crapper ... but I highly doubt it.
PPPS ... On the bright side at least we have something on HPA to gripe about .... just sayin'
 

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Oh, it's already started YH. Last night, before the thing was even called, libs were already saying that the economy would continue to struggle if the Republicans retained control of Congress. Yep, them darned obstructionists will keep getting in Obama's way. Another preemptive strike, making excuses already for poor performance.

They also crowed all night about exit polls that showed that when asked about the economy, 50% of people STILL blame Bush for where we are. Make no mistake, the "blame Bush" mantra will continue on for YEARS...
 

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Oh, it's already started YH. Last night, before the thing was even called, libs were already saying that the economy would continue to struggle if the Republicans retained control of Congress. Yep, them darned obstructionists will keep getting in Obama's way. Another preemptive strike, making excuses already for poor performance.
Not a pre-emptive strike...pretty much based in fact. The Republican's painted themselves into a corner with the Super Committee debacle.

And if you noticed it was mostly energy companies (big oil) that tanked today but big gains made in the healthcare markets.
 

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Of course sig, on your side it always has to be the "other side" that needs to compromise, never your guy.

Gotta love Harry Reid's comment today about how he wants to work together BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE, NOBODY IS GOING TO PUSH US AROUND... Pretty tough talk there Harry. Apparently you guys are the only ones allowed to push people around...
 

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Sorry....But the Republican track record the past couple years speaks for itself. It was pretty much one crisis after another. They were only focused on knocking Obama out of office at all costs.
 

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If liberals would take off the Maoist-red-tinted goggles for a moment and look at market realities, they'd see the truth- the BIGGEST reason for lack of investment in the USA and market unease is that businesses have no clue what Obama will do next week let alone next year. Higher taxes, more social liabilities, all of this is called risk. Companies avoid risk.

I learned all about this selling and building power plants in El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Panama. Countries with high political risk (which is what we have now in the USA)- the return on investment has to be through the roof for banks and investors to take the plunge. Consequently, there's no investment. NOT until the guvmn't stabilizes. The tax rates can even be high, just as long as there is stability. The killer is not knowing 1 year to the next where the guvmn't will stand.

Under Obama, the USA is very unstable. Very high political risk. China is a more secure place to do business than, say, California or New York.

Now, granted, Liberals don't believe in markets so all of this is over most of their heads if they don't simply put wax in their ears and start going "na na na" as soon as you bring this topic up. Their feeling is the guvmn't can just "make it happen"- sure, Chavez style. They have free health care down there too. AND guvmn't subsidized low cost gasoline. And if you get a guvmn't job you are set for life. Liberal dream land.

Now, how many Americans are emigrating to Venezuala? How many companies are investing in Venezuala?

None. That tells you something.

BH
 

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Now, how many Americans are emigrating to Venezuala? How many companies are investing in Venezuala?
They tried that in the 1950's in Cuba ... didn't work out so well then either ...

Oops ya mean they're s'posed to go into business and not make a profit, because profit is bad and its corporations ruining the USA ... not the massive bloated behemoth we call the US Gov't ...
 

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Yup...Obama should take control of the Central Bank/European debt crisis and get things under control as he did here avoiding a total collapse which his decisive actions obviously salvaged our sinking ship when he first took office in 2008. One can debate this point forever but Yesterday the American people have resoundly spoken with their approval of our Commander in Chief!! !!


Hey...you can always short the market. I do suggest though in not timing of such strategies in connection with election results which have absolutely nothing to do with market fluctuations... etc!!
 

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Loggy,you can smile all you want at your SOCIALIST MUSLIM leader but when he puts 2 more antigun justices with lifetime appointments on the US Supreme court do not cry to me when your gun rights are not secure..Stupid people VOTE stupidly...
 

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Yepper! Those who voted for Obama made that bed and now they better sleep in it and like it. I don't want to hear any whining and crying about this or that in the next 4 years.

You can't just cherry pick socialism and say I want this but not that. You buy it, hook , line, and sinker. Now suck it all up and enjoy!
 

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SigPro2340 said:
Sorry....But the Republican track record the past couple years speaks for itself. It was pretty much one crisis after another. They were only focused on knocking Obama out of office at all costs.
Track record? With the exception of the Presidential race, the GOP has kicked but in 2010 and 2010. Gained seats in House last night, won big in 2012.

Guess what, if you won in 2010 and 2012, you owe it to your constituents to keep doing what you were doing.

People voted for the GOP to resist Obama, and that's exactly what they should do.
 

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John Henry said:
SigPro2340 said:
Sorry....But the Republican track record the past couple years speaks for itself. It was pretty much one crisis after another. They were only focused on knocking Obama out of office at all costs.
Track record? With the exception of the Presidential race, the GOP has kicked but in 2010 and 2010. Gained seats in House last night, won big in 2012.

Guess what, if you won in 2010 and 2012, you owe it to your constituents to keep doing what you were doing.

People voted for the GOP to resist Obama, and that's exactly what they should do.
Exactly. However, those on the left seem to think that the executive branch should now be able to force whatever they want through. To them, it is always the republican Congress that is being obstructionists and not Obama. It is always the right that has to cave to the demands of the left.

The American people sent a republican majority in the House to Washington in 2010 to stop Obama and last night they made that majority even bigger to do the same thing. The POTUS isn't supposed to have carte blanche power to do as he pleases like so many on the left and even the president himself wishes he had.

Now Obama and the Senate are thinking that they can bully the House into cracking and they will have the media on their side as well, ripping the republicans daily and blaming everything on them. Let's hope these limp wristed repubs don't cave...
 

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Now Obama and the Senate are thinking that they can bully the House into cracking and they will have the media on their side as well, ripping the republicans daily and blaming everything on them. Let's hope these limp wristed repubs don't cave...

What's going to be the first test? Aside from the sequestration and fiscal cliff, I see a big one being the W tax cuts. They're as good as gone. But BO will push for some type of middle class relief like he did before, in conjunction with some spending reductions. He had a basic deal with Boehner for such before, but the TP faction wanted the tax reduction for the top earners too. That's not going to happen this time from BO, he'll dig in and fight it now. So what will or should the R's do? Vote against middle class tax cuts and spending reductions or muck it up and get neither tax, nor spending cuts or look for middle ground compromise?
 

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The middle class doesn't need tax cuts. Neither does the upper class. What we need is a system in which EVERYONE contributes, from the guys who makes a dollar to the guys who makes 100 million dollars.

Of course this "fight" has been carefully calculated by the left and they know they have a winning hand. They will continue to paint the republicans are heartless and that they could care less about the middle class and only care about the rich, blah, blah, blah.

There doesn't need to be tax "cuts" for anyone. There needs to be EVERYONE who earns money paying taxes. Gotta have "skin in the game" right???
 

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I agree all should pay something.

But you know the R's in their platform called for tax relief. Even Mittens himself wanted to reduce rates. Would make the R's seem bi-polar if they voted against relief or that they agree with BO for higher taxes.

Extend the 2001 and 2003 tax relief packages-commonly known as the Bush tax cuts-pending reform of the tax code, to keep tax rates from rising on income, interest, dividends, and capital gains;
Reform the tax code by reducing marginal tax rates by 20 percent across-the-board in a revenue-neutral manner;
Eliminate the taxes on interest, dividends, and capital gains altogether for lower and middle-income taxpayers;
End the Death Tax; and
Repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax.
http://www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_Restoring/#Item3

Read the platform, it will provide some insights to many of the misconceptions some on the right hold to be truths.
 

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TraskOutdoors said:
The middle class doesn't need tax cuts. Neither does the upper class. What we need is a system in which EVERYONE contributes

There doesn't need to be tax "cuts" for anyone. There needs to be EVERYONE who earns money paying taxes. Gotta have "skin in the game" right???
Republican platform
Extend the 2001 and 2003 tax relief packages-commonly known as the Bush tax cuts-pending reform of the tax code, to keep tax rates from rising on income, interest, dividends, and capital gains;
Reform the tax code by reducing marginal tax rates by 20 percent across-the-board in a revenue-neutral manner;
Eliminate the taxes on interest, dividends, and capital gains altogether for lower and middle-income taxpayers;
End the Death Tax; and
Repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax.


You're telling me you voted in favor of a platform and a candidate that called for tax cuts, but now since he lost you're against them?

You're also okay with taxes going up on all, since the temporary Bush cuts will be expiring shortly?
 
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