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This was in the PA outdoor news:

' Yes we are taking more record book bucks in Pennsylvania than ever before

With many posting their ground, even small parcels, food plots, cuttings, and personal land management are the norm today. Food supplements for deer and antler growth are sold everywhere, and are very popular

Add in antler restrictions, bad weather in recent years, and few hunters with fewer skills and less time. Also there is more natural foods due to lack of deer density

Cable television supplied knowledge of land management and proper supplements. Television hunting hosts advocating a "160 or better" mentality and selective practices is creating a celebrity hunter effect.

Most serious hunters and land owners aren't waiting for the Game Commission. They're managing their own posted properties properly and the results are coming in.

In the past, mroe records were a surprise to the shooter. Today most are known and grown. I like to call it the texas effect. A good analogy McGuire and Sossa vs. the babe - no disrespect intended.
Antler restrictions have helped, but most of the credit for many of these new records should go to the grower"
 

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The woods of PA are hardly a Texas deer farm. As for all the supposed antler-growth inducing supplements and crops, they're about as likely to work as those pills smilin' Bob sells on tv.
 

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mountainhippie said:
The woods of PA are hardly a Texas deer farm. As for all the supposed antler-growth inducing supplements and crops, they're about as likely to work as those pills smilin' Bob sells on tv.
So the food plots and supplements arent doing anything? Wow.
 

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Almost forgot there are P&Y's hiding behind every tree in Penns woods these days, Thx for the reminder!
 

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Bill_Weber_RRT said:
Almost forgot there are P&Y's hiding behind every tree in Penns woods these days, Thx for the reminder!
I guess the camps that dont let anyone shoot anything under 140-160" dont mean anything either right? It's all the PGC AR that are making all these big deer right? I guess that big 14pointer shot near 3 mile island illegaly came from the AR to right? I guess that the fact of not being able to hunt on 3 mile island didn't factor into anything right? Lol!
 

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They're certainly not coming out of a bag of salt someone's spreading on the ground. Planting food plots improves the overall health of the animals, that's true, would it matter if that food plot was "bio-logic" broccoli rod that's "specially formulated" for antler growth as opposed to, say, clover, corn, or wheat? Probably not.
 

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Like it or not, it's a side effect of AR. No one can reliably tell the genetic potential of a 1-1/2 year old buck that they don't know the breeding history of. They don't necessarily grow huge their first year since their nutrition is going to their skeletons.

I have trail cam pics of 1-1/2 year old 4-points and 6-points that live through the seasons, and these deer are noticeably longer and taller, body wise, in late December than they were in September. They grew a lot, just like some teenage boys go from 5' 10" to 6' 3" from age 15-1/2 to 17.

With AR protecting an entire age group of deer, then statistically there will be more older, and hence bigger, bucks in coming years.

This isn't to say that the "best" genetics make it through. Maybe they had a legal rack the first year and got killed. But it doesn't take a biology degree, or an endorsement from the PGC or USP to understand that an older buck who's skeletal frame is grown or mostly grown will divert more of the growth minerals to his rack as a 2-1/2 and beyond. And a statistician will tell you that odds are with more bucks living past 1-1/2, more will live to 2-1/2, 3-1/2, 4-1/2 and so on.
 

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I don't credit TV shows or mineral blocks for what is happening in PA. They may want the credit. But, they don't deserve it!
 

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I think credit should be given to the hunters that let the 1 1/2 year old legal bucks walk...I feel hunters (in my area anyway) even youth hunters, would rather shoot a doe than a small legal 6pt. It makes me happy to see hunters set goals and strive to shoot a mature deer. Doesn't seem to be a big ego thing just to kill any legal buck. If they want some venison a doe would do.
 

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I know AR has helped. I also know that we started managing our own property 5 years befor AR and that helped more than anything. I can also tell that we have noticed a difference in the bucks since or children have started hunting. Atleast now our children aren't satisfied with 1 1/2 year old bucks and are waiting for bigger ones now too. I'm sure we will see an increase in our quality of bucks again!
 

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The greed of getting a trophy buck has become and abomination to hunting. AR fueled by TV's has led people to dreaming they can get trophies here too and thats all that even kids should shoot. So you take a kid hunting they think they should shoot a TV buck and are disappointed they dont see one...kid will likely not like hunting in the long run.

As for land...here is what is going to happen: AR leads to posted ground, baiting has starter in some WMU's, soon will be the norm, which will lead to more jealousy, posting and then leasing ground will gain more traction...and it wont be hunting it will be who has the best flavored corn.

I have never shot a buck I mounted and I have a ton of "trophy" racks as claimed by others...cant eat rack...your forefathers "hunters" claim to be like would be ashamed...
 

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TheASlayer said:
This was in the PA outdoor news:

' Yes we are taking more record book bucks in Pennsylvania than ever before

With many posting their ground, even small parcels, food plots, cuttings, and personal land management are the norm today. Food supplements for deer and antler growth are sold everywhere, and are very popular

Add in antler restrictions, bad weather in recent years, and few hunters with fewer skills and less time. Also there is more natural foods due to lack of deer density.

Cable television supplied knowledge of land management and proper supplements. Television hunting hosts advocating a "160 or better" mentality and selective practices is creating a celebrity hunter effect.

Most serious hunters and land owners aren't waiting for the Game Commission. They're managing their own posted properties properly and the results are coming in.

In the past, mroe records were a surprise to the shooter. Today most are known and grown. I like to call it the texas effect. A good analogy McGuire and Sossa vs. the babe - no disrespect intended.
Antler restrictions have helped, but most of the credit for many of these new records should go to the grower"
"Also there is more natural foods due to lack of deer density." That's the part of the PGC plan that was called "herd reduction," or HR. I don't know if the article in PA Outdoor News was intended to take credit away from the PGC policy or not, but if so, you can't take credit away by listing one of the PGC policies as though the PGC had nothing to do with it.

Steve.
 

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Of course it is mostly food plots. Come down to Bucks or Berks county and look at some of the deer taken. These counties have been nothing but huge farm plots for 200 years. Now some of the big woods counties are showing bigger bucks. It is mostly from gun clubs and private camps putting out food plots. A lot of it is the lack of hunters in the mountains for the last 20 years. I think down the road there will be trouble because of this. Sustaining a wild herd with artificial means is not a good thing.
 

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I believe the article to be accurate. The article gives multiple reasons why the overall size of bucks has improved and I believe all of those reasons contribute.
 

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I feel the only constant across the state is AR. not everyone food plots, or put out mineral licks but we all have AR in one flavor or another. in a scientific equasion the only answer across the state is AR since it is the only constant. oh the other constant,,,,,, bigger bucks are being shot more often. I started in 81 when a spike was a happy dance. fast forward 30 years and there isnt a spike or basket rack in the woods that I even take my gun off my shoulder. IMHO thank you PGC/ Mr Alt Im sick of draggin scrubs
 

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Gunplummer said:
Of course it is mostly food plots. Come down to Bucks or Berks county and look at some of the deer taken. These counties have been nothing but huge farm plots for 200 years. Now some of the big woods counties are showing bigger bucks. It is mostly from gun clubs and private camps putting out food plots. A lot of it is the lack of hunters in the mountains for the last 20 years. I think down the road there will be trouble because of this. Sustaining a wild herd with artificial means is not a good thing.
How do you explain the huge bucks coming off state forest lands in the north central?
 

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MathewsG5 said:
I think credit should be given to the hunters that let the 1 1/2 year old legal bucks walk...I feel hunters (in my area anyway) even youth hunters, would rather shoot a doe than a small legal 6pt. It makes me happy to see hunters set goals and strive to shoot a mature deer. Doesn't seem to be a big ego thing just to kill any legal buck. If they want some venison a doe would do.
You sir, have hit the nail on the head.(I believe) I think hunter's attitudes are changing. I know I enjoy letting younger bucks walk almost as much as harvesting a mature buck. The single most important thing a buck needs (to be large)is age.
 
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