[Twowithone]

How many "predicted" issues have arisen from the implementation of MYH so far

I know of 1 incident few yrs back. The guy is a poster here and got pinched by his own son talking to the WCO. 1 is 1 too many and this goes on quite a bit more than a lot of people think.

 

[dpms]

Probably, I hunted the opener this year down in the SE SRA with my semi shotgun. The weird part ? I had a group of 5 walk right up and talk to me , and all were carrying center fire rifles, when I explained it was shotgun only area they responded that they weren't bear hunting ???? Go figure.

So yes, every year here in the SE the WCO's come across many firearm violations along with hunter/public conflict.

We already lost our public shooting ranges due to knotheads, and now all of our private ranges are under attack.

So yes, I dont want to see any news reports of hunters or the public being injured,killed our property damage from semi auto rifles giving us two black eyes.

All it takes is one match to start a fire the commisioners couldn't put out with opinion being a state agency.

So, you ageee it is the person that is the problem if I understand you correctly? You lined up in defense of gun rights claiming that is is the person and not the gun which is the right position as well. So why do you support the ownership of semi auto for personal defense and recreational shooting claiming that it is the person and not the gun, yet wish to not allow semis for hunting if the person is the problem and not the gun?

 

[hunter4095]

Probably, I hunted the opener this year down in the SE SRA with my semi shotgun. The weird part ? I had a group of 5 walk right up and talk to me , and all were carrying center fire rifles, when I explained it was shotgun only area they responded that they weren't bear hunting ???? Go figure.

So yes, every year here in the SE the WCO's come across many firearm violations along with hunter/public conflict.

We already lost our public shooting ranges due to knotheads, and now all of our private ranges are under attack.

So yes, I dont want to see any news reports of hunters or the public being injured,killed our property damage from semi auto rifles giving us two black eyes.

All it takes is one match to start a fire the commisioners couldn't put out with opinion being a state agency.

So, you ageee it is the person that is the problem if I understand you correctly? You lined up in defense of gun rights claiming that is is the person and not the gun which is the right position as well. So why do you support the ownership of semi auto for personal defense and recreational shooting claiming that it is the person and not the gun, yet wish to not allow semis for hunting if the person is the problem and not the gun?

True, reason 1, not enough uniforms out there enforcing things now, the WCO's are way to thinned out and overloaded to take care of extra regulations. And explaining new regulations to the 50% who dont read the book.

Reason 2, your not talking about one person being the cause. It would be many until the camels back would break.

I do see your points, and would love to hunt with a modern firearm"at least once", but my take is PA is a very diverse state with a very high number of hunters most times within a hundred yards from each other.
Along with our terrain being mountains covered in scrub an laurels to small agricultural areas with farms and houses being in close proximity to each other.
And I think we have an excellent safety record the way it is.

NOthing like the badlands where you can see for miles or other states where hunter density is far lower than ours.

So I dont see the problem being one persons spray and pray, I see it being many causing headlines and problems. And its then I dont see the commissioners reversing regulation. because they can't make old buzzards angry cause they all ran out to buy MSA's
So lands will be closed, the public outcry would be heard from legislators. And more unnecessary pressure put on the GC, hunters, shooting sportsmen and shooting facilities.

 

[dpms]

One can draw a very close parallel between your opposition to hunters with semi as others have drawn between civilians with semis. I think I see that you realize that your position is a difficult one based on your positions on gun control.

It is either the gun or the person when we discuss thier uses. The improper use of semis by citizens tarnishes then use of semi by law abiding citizens yet we stand united in support of us being able to own them amd use them for whatever purposes we choose to, without political control over it. It seems you fear perceptions by non hunters as enough reason to prevent their use for hunting here yet dismiss non gun owners perceptions of these firearms outside of hunting.

I also see that the PA is not like other states being brought up again. Many states allow their game agencies to regulate semi autos for hunting. Many associate Michigan as a close relative to PA as far as hunting is concerned. They allow semi auto.

 

[hunter4095]

The line is not that thin. And hunting is not protected under the bill of rights.

And living here in the far SE I know how easy it is to loose hunting and shooting opportunity from public, political, and financial pressure.

Try to join a gun club here that doesn't have a 3 year waiting list and hundreds in yearly dues. Then put up with closings yearly to comply with new local laws costing thousands in new useless safety measures and construction.

If it wasn't for the 2nd amendment you know as well as I do none of us would even have a reason to discuss this right now.

 

[hunter4095]

Ask the GC when the 157 shooting range will reopen .

The biggest offender to ever shoot there had a house built across the road from it and became the biggest complainer about the range.

the public shut that range down, dont think for a minute the state has the backs of sportsmen.

 

[hunter4095]

If it was proposed in areas of the state that could safely support guys out there hunting with a MSA then I would say im all for it.

My only argument is that once the commissioners open the gates they have a hard time getting issues fixed from it.
And that's how you shoot your foot.

 

[archeryman32]

One can draw a very close parallel between your opposition to hunters with semi as others have drawn between civilians with semis. I think I see that you realize that your position is a difficult one based on your positions on gun control.

It is either the gun or the person when we discuss thier uses. The improper use of semis by citizens tarnishes then use of semi by law abiding citizens yet we stand united in support of us being able to own them amd use them for whatever purposes we choose to, without political control over it. It seems you fear perceptions by non hunters as enough reason to prevent their use for hunting here yet dismiss non gun owners perceptions of these firearms outside of hunting.

I also see that the PA is not like other states being brought up again. Many states allow their game agencies to regulate semi autos for hunting. Many associate Michigan as a close relative to PA as far as hunting is concerned. They allow semi auto.

Serious question dpms....do you own/work for a company that would stand to make money off of semi-autos being legal? Also, why do you need them, other than just want them?

 

[tdd]

I'm curious....numbers of hunters/proximity to homes has been cited as a reason semiautos are unsafe.

How the heck is ANY firearm safe, then?

 

[dpms]

Serious question dpms....do you own/work for a company that would stand to make money off of semi-autos being legal? Also, why do you need them, other than just want them?

Serious answer. No connection whatsoever to the gun industry. I work in healthcare. When I joined HPA, I had just bought a DPMS M4 and thought that would be a cool screen name. I used to be into guns more than I am now. More into bows lately.

As for you other question, I think semautomatic firearms have legitimate and protected uses by citizens for personal defense, recreational shooting and sporting purposes. I own one semi auto rifle and one semi auto handgun and both are set up for home defense. The rest of my guns are manual actions.

 

[tdd]

One can draw a very close parallel between your opposition to hunters with semi as others have drawn between civilians with semis. I think I see that you realize that your position is a difficult one based on your positions on gun control.

It is either the gun or the person when we discuss thier uses. The improper use of semis by citizens tarnishes then use of semi by law abiding citizens yet we stand united in support of us being able to own them amd use them for whatever purposes we choose to, without political control over it. It seems you fear perceptions by non hunters as enough reason to prevent their use for hunting here yet dismiss non gun owners perceptions of these firearms outside of hunting.

I also see that the PA is not like other states being brought up again. Many states allow their game agencies to regulate semi autos for hunting. Many associate Michigan as a close relative to PA as far as hunting is concerned. They allow semi auto.

Serious question dpms....do you own/work for a company that would stand to make money off of semi-autos being legal? Also, why do you need them, other than just want them?

I really, really hope that question of "need" was in the sense of use for hunting.

If that was in the sense of general ownership, then this conversation will be wholly unproductive.

 

[Samuel]

As for you other question, I think semautomatic firearms have legitimate and protected uses by citizens for personal defense, recreational shooting and sporting purposes. I own one semi auto rifle and one semi auto handgun and both are set up for home defense. The rest of my guns are manual actions.

Personally I would think this is the position of the pgc boc. This is speculation on my part.

 

[dpms]

Personally I would think this is the position of the pgc boc. This is speculation on my part.

In my discussions with those that will discuss the issue, I get the feel that there is some support on the board form the PGC regulating them for hunting. There is little support for expanding semi auto for big game due to social issues. Small game rimfire and predator would get a look, though, I believe.

 

[bobcat]

"archeryman32 said,

"1. It has no purpose to help manage the resource.
2. It would simply be for a guy to carry into the woods, to throw off 5-10 rounds as fast as he possibly could. If not, why else would you need to carry a semi, other than for faster follow ups?
3. People getting out of their vehicles carrying these types of weapons would not be accepted by the general public. Remember, we are a vast minority (hunters). We have to worry about keeping in good standing with the public, since they also do a majority of the voting.

#3 is the big one, whether others will admit it or not."

Finally, the heart of the issue.

1. Often used in this debate. Many of our current regulations are not needed to mange the resource. Many have nothing to do with the resource.
2. Is it the gun or the person behind the gun? During gun control debates, hunters stand united that it is the person. Now, during this debate you are blaming the gun.
3. So, do you only care what others think about our guns if we are discussing hunting? Do you care as much about the perceptions of the non hunting public when it comes to you owning these type of firearms and shooting them at public ranges. Most of the public in pennsylvania accepts semi automatic guns now for personal defense and recreational shooting. Law abiding citizens that own guns are in good standing with most as are hunters.

very well said!
for years i have wanted to get a 10-22 but couldn't justify spending the money on something i couldn't hunt with. Same with an ar.
totally agree with the rationality of its the "person" when its misused but the "gun" when hunting.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The commission passes all manner of ruloes that assume hunters are evil. You can't hunt small game during a firearms deer season with a rifle. You can't be out during the late season with your 45 cal flinter for deer and shoot a squirrel with the same gun. Although, I could legally shoot a coyote with the same gun. If I am hunting deer legally why do they care if I decide to take a squirrel with the same gun?

The limit on centerfires for small game was for safety issues, although that reason fell flat when they permitted such cartridges as the 220 Swift for small game.

The commission issues many such rules assuming people are idiots, even the florescent orange rules.

 

[dpms]

The commission issues many such rules assuming people are idiots, even the florescent orange rules.

Obviously you are not a big PGC fan by this post and some others, but that is not the direction that I intended this post to go as the issue I raise is a Legislative one.

With that said, though, I would like to see the PGC take a active role is this as they have some other issues. Even if it is for small game rimfire or centerfire predator. It is time to move forward on this issue. Especially when outside of Pa, semis are widely used and accepted as sporting arms. dd to that that when anti gun legislation is brought to our general assembly, it is sold as reasonable and common sense because it does not affect hunters as we cannot use these firearms here.