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archeryman32 said:
dpms said:
archeryman32 said:
And think about it, does it make sense to push such weapons in this political climate.
Should we bow to the antis then and wait? Will there be a better time? Is it the gun or the person behind the gun? Why are semis legal in our most heavily hunted and populated areas of state but illegal outside of them? Do we only care if a non hunter see us with a semi if we are hunting but don't care if we are target shooting?
You're twisting the facts again and you know it! Shotguns man, just shotguns. Please dont try to spin this that hard just to fit your agenda.
Ok, so a semiauto shotgun spewing 000 buck, which is what...20-some projectiles per shot?....three shots semiauto.....that's ok and safe.....but an AR in a farm field is not?

An 1100 launching slugs is just dandy around a housing development, but I can't use my AR15 to shoot a coyote 400 yards from anything resembling a road?

PGC did studies when looking at expanding the shotgun-only zones, and found slugs to be NO SAFER than rifles.

So....address the OP's point if you want, and not your dislike for him. Why is a semiauto slug gun just fine in suburban PA, and an AR is not in rural north central PA?

That is the crux of the issue. Emotional outbursts aren't getting this discussion anywhere, nor is "I don't like the OP" furthering the discussion. You don't like him. Fine. He has placed a valid issue out there....which is the permitted use of semiauto shotguns with shot and slugs in our most populated areas, but the denial of buckshot at ALL in the rest of the state, and anything semiautomatic for any reason in some of our LEAST densely populated regions. The stated purpose for the restriction is apparently public perception and appearances, but yet the firearm pictured at the top of the original post could legally be carried through the SRA for hunting.

Comments on that, as opposed to why you don't like the OP?
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
tdd said:
Um......I can tell some folks don't like the OP, but, honestly, I don't see the issue with semi-auto's being legal.

Folks may take issue with the OP's style of presenting the issue, but the issue he presents is valid, imho.
Thanks for the support. As for some folks "not liking me", can you say crossbow wars. Some wounds still fester. I don't attack like others. Not my gig.
 

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I think I did pretty much state why I dont like the OP. He uses feel good stories and scare tactics to further his agendas. He wants more and more, and is never satisfied.

This post is purely twisting facts, and he knows it, to further his agenda. It can clearly be seen with the pictures he posted to begin with.
 

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dpms said:
archeryman32 said:
You're twisting the facts again and you know it! Shotguns man, just shotguns. Please dont try to spin this that hard just to fit your agenda.
Not twisting at all. We are talking semi automatic Shotguns sometimes shooting saboted single projectile ammunition in our most highly populated and hunted areas of the state. This isn't the big woods of Potter.

And you didn't answer my questions. Just saying.
This question?

dpms said:
Should we bow to the antis then and wait? Will there be a better time?
Yeah I'll answer it, with a question...are you insane? Seriously, you think now is the time? You have got to be kidding me. You start pushing this stuff for hunting and you are going to get shot down before you even get off the ground. It would take one, just ONE, accident with an AR in a hunting situation (at this time and political climate) and you'd see more restrictions than you could imagine.

I dont personally like your attitude and outlook on hunting, but I do think you are a smart guy...perhaps I was wrong?
 

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archeryman32 said:
I think I did pretty much state why I dont like the OP. He uses feel good stories and scare tactics to further his agendas. He wants more and more, and is never satisfied.

This post is purely twisting facts, and he knows it, to further his agenda. It can clearly be seen with the pictures he posted to begin with.
I never asked why you disliked the OP. I asked if you wanted to discuss the issue he presents instead. I really don't care whether you like him or not. The issue raised is not getting discussed in your posts, only a dislike for him.

I would be all for semiauto legality, particularly for small game and predator/varmint hunting. Personlly, I would love to be able to use my M1 Garand for deer, but I think the sky just might possibly fall if the folks in PA were asked to modernize THAT much in one stroke.

When I hunt out of state, people laugh and say "how do you put up with it?" when we talk about no Sunday hunting, no semiautos, etc. It seems nonsensical to them, and these are guys who don't use semi's to hunt, but see no reason why people get so bound up over them.

So....why are YOU opposed to semiautos being permissible for hunting?
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
archeryman32 said:
I think I did pretty much state why I dont like the OP. He uses feel good stories and scare tactics to further his agendas. He wants more and more, and is never satisfied.

This post is purely twisting facts, and he knows it, to further his agenda. It can clearly be seen with the pictures he posted to begin with.
Please..... Sharing positive experiences on this board is a bad thing I guess. Some prefer the dark recesses of the dungeon. I don't like it there personally. I will stay above ground on the high road.
 

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tdd said:
archeryman32 said:
I think I did pretty much state why I dont like the OP. He uses feel good stories and scare tactics to further his agendas. He wants more and more, and is never satisfied.

This post is purely twisting facts, and he knows it, to further his agenda. It can clearly be seen with the pictures he posted to begin with.
I never asked why you disliked the OP. I asked if you wanted to discuss the issue he presents instead. I really don't care whether you like him or not. The issue raised is not getting discussed in your posts, only a dislike for him.

I would be all for semiauto legality, particularly for small game and predator/varmint hunting. Personlly, I would love to be able to use my M1 Garand for deer, but I think the sky just might possibly fall if the folks in PA were asked to modernize THAT much in one stroke.

When I hunt out of state, people laugh and say "how do you put up with it?" when we talk about no Sunday hunting, no semiautos, etc. It seems nonsensical to them, and these are guys who don't use semi's to hunt, but see no reason why people get so bound up over them.

So....why are YOU opposed to semiautos being permissible for hunting?
1. It has no purpose to help manage the resource.
2. It would simply be for a guy to carry into the woods, to throw off 5-10 rounds as fast as he possibly could. If not, why else would you need to carry a semi, other than for faster follow ups?
3. People getting out of their vehicles carrying these types of weapons would not be accepted by the general public. Remember, we are a vast minority (hunters). We have to worry about keeping in good standing with the public, since they also do a majority of the voting.

#3 is the big one, whether others will admit it or not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
"archeryman32 said,

"1. It has no purpose to help manage the resource.
2. It would simply be for a guy to carry into the woods, to throw off 5-10 rounds as fast as he possibly could. If not, why else would you need to carry a semi, other than for faster follow ups?
3. People getting out of their vehicles carrying these types of weapons would not be accepted by the general public. Remember, we are a vast minority (hunters). We have to worry about keeping in good standing with the public, since they also do a majority of the voting.

#3 is the big one, whether others will admit it or not."

Finally, the heart of the issue.

1. Often used in this debate. Many of our current regulations are not needed to mange the resource. Many have nothing to do with the resource.
2. Is it the gun or the person behind the gun? During gun control debates, hunters stand united that it is the person. Now, during this debate you are blaming the gun.
3. So, do you only care what others think about our guns if we are discussing hunting? Do you care as much about the perceptions of the non hunting public when it comes to you owning these type of firearms and shooting them at public ranges. Most of the public in pennsylvania accepts semi automatic guns now for personal defense and recreational shooting. Law abiding citizens that own guns are in good standing with most as are hunters.
 

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Good. Hopefully there is a cap on the top, or no blood running down the tailgate/bumper, because I can tell you from living in 5C and talking to people who are non-hunters, SEEING a dead deer is way worse to almost all folks who are sensitive to what they see hunters do than what gun the hunter is carrying. Those deer racks on bumpers are the WORST PR disaster for this sport, above and beyond anything an AR would do. People here who don't hunt see a deer flopped on a gate, limbs sprawled and head dangling, and they are completely turned off to hunters.

Likewise, I've found hunters who are within sight of the road, or JUST outside a safety zone do HUGE amounts of damage to our image, too. I want to be clear....I am NOT condemning what those hunters are doing. Simply pointing out what things trigger "public perception" issues.

Kudos to you for at least making an effort to keep the deer out of sight, as that is at least consistent with your concern for public perception.

I would also submit that my turkey gun with a "pistol grip" stock, while we ALL know what it is, looks no different to a non-hunter passing by than an AR.
 

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dpms said:
3. So, do you only care what others think about our guns if we are discussing hunting? Do you care as much about the perceptions of the non hunting public when it comes to you owning these type of firearms and shooting them at public ranges. Most of the public in pennsylvania accepts semi automatic guns now for personal defense and recreational shooting. Law abiding citizens that own guns are in good standing with most as are hunters.
They accept this since currently semi's are in controlled environments. They are shot at ranges, targets, and used in home defense. Excellent purposes, IMO. Start telling the public that people are going to be walking around in the woods, behind their homes, carrying ARs. Go ahead, see how well that goes over.

I seriously cant believe you are going for another push at this, with everything going on. You seriously get tunnel vision sometimes man, cracks me up.
 

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tdd said:
Good. Hopefully there is a cap on the top, or no blood running down the tailgate/bumper, because I can tell you from living in 5C and talking to people who are non-hunters, SEEING a dead deer is way worse to almost all folks who are sensitive to what they see hunters do than what gun the hunter is carrying. Those deer racks on bumpers are the WORST PR disaster for this sport, above and beyond anything an AR would do. People here who don't hunt see a deer flopped on a gate, limbs sprawled and head dangling, and they are completely turned off to hunters.

Likewise, I've found hunters who are within sight of the road, or JUST outside a safety zone do HUGE amounts of damage to our image, too. I want to be clear....I am NOT condemning what those hunters are doing. Simply pointing out what things trigger "public perception" issues.

Kudos to you for at least making an effort to keep the deer out of sight, as that is at least consistent with your concern for public perception.

I would also submit that my turkey gun with a "pistol grip" stock, while we ALL know what it is, looks no different to a non-hunter passing by than an AR.
Stuff like this goes right along with people trying to prove a point, but carrying their AR on their shoulder while walking around in public. Is it legal? Sure is. Does it help the image of gun owners? Heck no! Dont believe me? Everytime someone does this, it's all over the news.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
tdd said:
I would also submit that my turkey gun with a "pistol grip" stock, while we ALL know what it is, looks no different to a non-hunter passing by than an AR.
Absolutely correct. I would go a step further that most non hunters and gun owners wouldn't know what they were looking at if they had it in front of them. Most semi auto for sporting purposes look nothing like the "black guns" that some fear.
 

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And if he had the same beliefs as you and was pushing something you agreed with, "tunnel vision" would suddenly become "dedication to the sport". It's all about perspective.

And if dpms is right that a bunch of you are on his case over his stance on the crossbow issue, that's pretty disappointing. That issue was over years ago, and I don't know about all of you, but I sure don't see much impact on the bow season from crossbows. I hunt in 5C, they've been legal for everyone for YEARS longer than statewide, and I STILL haven't seen much impact. Quick shot of more hunters for about 2 years till they found out that sitting in a lawn chair in the bushes in October didn't lead to much success (LITERALLY, I saw this multiple times), and those who didn't know how to bowhunt gave it up.

But I am deviating from the topic at hand....my apologies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
What about 1 and 2? Many of our regs not needed for management purposes or have nothing to do with management purposes and blaming the gun when it is convenient but blaming the person on other issues.
 

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dpms said:
tdd said:
I would also submit that my turkey gun with a "pistol grip" stock, while we ALL know what it is, looks no different to a non-hunter passing by than an AR.
Absolutely correct. I would go a step further that most non hunters and gun owners wouldn't know what they were looking at if they had it in front of them. Most semi auto for sporting purposes look nothing like the "black guns" that some fear.
Yeah since that's exactly what you are talking about...camo shotguns with a pistol grip. Look at your screen name! C'mon, enough with the smoke and mirrors.
 
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