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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A legislative issue but here are some examples of what is legal and not legal to hunt with in Pa.

This is legal in the SRA for deer. In our most highly populated and heavily hunted areas of the state where the chance of a non hunting citizen seeing a hunter with one of these evil guns is greatest. Even where semi auto is legal, few use them and even fewer choose "assault shotguns". Hunters united around our right to shoot people recently with the anti gun legislation yet divide over allowing our game agency to regulate them for hunting.


This not legal in the rest of the state for squirrel.


This is not legal in the rest of the state for coyotes.


This is not legal in the rest of the state for deer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
TeflonDon said:
The pictures make a poor way to prove the point.
I think they make a excellent point as it relates to the context of the issue. When I have brought it up to reps and our commissioners, I commonly hear the social concerns. A pgc commissioner said they do not want to see kid in the paper holding a semi automatic with his deer. Well, in our most highly populated and hunted areas of the state we allow not only semi automatic firearms but they can look like what I posted and be perfectly legal, yet outside of the SRA, a wood stocked Marlin rimfire for squirrel or a desert camo AR is not legal for coyotes.

Alot of hypocrisy and contradictions when one looks at the issue. Sportsmen united recently around the semi automatic issue yet wish to divide over giving our game agency the ability to regulate semi automatics for hunting and furthering our gun rights.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It will take sportsmen and the sporting orgs to have the will to push for legislation allowing our game agency to regulate all legal firearms for hunting. It will also take the PGC willing to state that they support this legislation.

Sportsmen united recently after Newtown and blamed the person behind the gun, then many of these same sportsmen then blame the gun when the discussion turns to hunting with them.

Alot of hypocrisy and contradictions in these discussions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Bucky VA said:
If the point of this thread is to confuse people.... Then by golly consider your agenda pushed.

Shouldn't this be in the anti game commission... I mean legislative category?
The PGC has no authority to regulate semi auto. I would like to see them ask for legislation to allow them to do it though.

No purposeful attempts at confusing. Just pointing out some confusing laws pertaining to hunting with semi auto in this state and the contradictions that exist within them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
archeryman32 said:
And think about it, does it make sense to push such weapons in this political climate.
Should we bow to the antis then and wait? Will there be a better time? Is it the gun or the person behind the gun? Why are semis legal in our most heavily hunted and populated areas of state but illegal outside of them? Do we only care if a non hunter see us with a semi if we are hunting but don't care if we are target shooting?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
archeryman32 said:
He has proven over and over he wants what is best for him, under the guise of women, children, elderly, and getting more involved in the sport.
Everything I have stood for over the years I stated my case with multiple reasons why I felt it was the right thing to do. Some of those initiatives I have seen happen, others I have not. None of those that have happened have destroyed our sport or the image of hunters. Much to your dismay.

And I do not recall using women, the elderly or kids as a guise in this discussion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
archeryman32 said:
You're twisting the facts again and you know it! Shotguns man, just shotguns. Please dont try to spin this that hard just to fit your agenda.
Not twisting at all. We are talking semi automatic Shotguns sometimes shooting saboted single projectile ammunition in our most highly populated and hunted areas of the state. This isn't the big woods of Potter.

And you didn't answer my questions. Just saying.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
tdd said:
Um......I can tell some folks don't like the OP, but, honestly, I don't see the issue with semi-auto's being legal.

Folks may take issue with the OP's style of presenting the issue, but the issue he presents is valid, imho.
Thanks for the support. As for some folks "not liking me", can you say crossbow wars. Some wounds still fester. I don't attack like others. Not my gig.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
archeryman32 said:
I think I did pretty much state why I dont like the OP. He uses feel good stories and scare tactics to further his agendas. He wants more and more, and is never satisfied.

This post is purely twisting facts, and he knows it, to further his agenda. It can clearly be seen with the pictures he posted to begin with.
Please..... Sharing positive experiences on this board is a bad thing I guess. Some prefer the dark recesses of the dungeon. I don't like it there personally. I will stay above ground on the high road.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
"archeryman32 said,

"1. It has no purpose to help manage the resource.
2. It would simply be for a guy to carry into the woods, to throw off 5-10 rounds as fast as he possibly could. If not, why else would you need to carry a semi, other than for faster follow ups?
3. People getting out of their vehicles carrying these types of weapons would not be accepted by the general public. Remember, we are a vast minority (hunters). We have to worry about keeping in good standing with the public, since they also do a majority of the voting.

#3 is the big one, whether others will admit it or not."

Finally, the heart of the issue.

1. Often used in this debate. Many of our current regulations are not needed to mange the resource. Many have nothing to do with the resource.
2. Is it the gun or the person behind the gun? During gun control debates, hunters stand united that it is the person. Now, during this debate you are blaming the gun.
3. So, do you only care what others think about our guns if we are discussing hunting? Do you care as much about the perceptions of the non hunting public when it comes to you owning these type of firearms and shooting them at public ranges. Most of the public in pennsylvania accepts semi automatic guns now for personal defense and recreational shooting. Law abiding citizens that own guns are in good standing with most as are hunters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
tdd said:
I would also submit that my turkey gun with a "pistol grip" stock, while we ALL know what it is, looks no different to a non-hunter passing by than an AR.
Absolutely correct. I would go a step further that most non hunters and gun owners wouldn't know what they were looking at if they had it in front of them. Most semi auto for sporting purposes look nothing like the "black guns" that some fear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
What about 1 and 2? Many of our regs not needed for management purposes or have nothing to do with management purposes and blaming the gun when it is convenient but blaming the person on other issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
hunter4095 said:
When it started as the big buck club,which later Became the PCF they had a target agenda to make something happen so they can be published with their names attached to it and sell website ad space,

Now that the sunset clause was voted on and xbows are here forever a new agenda is needed in the people that fish club.

a few of the crossbow federation chair holders were even asked to step into the shadows because they publicly admitted their anti PAGC agenda of a merger with the DCNR.

The use any tactic available to fit the bill. As to sell ad space and get their name out there. But it's nothing more than another anti PGC federation in sheep's clothing wanting to be born.
Pure bologna and you know it. Shameful to even bring that trash up. As I said before, some wounds still fester and character assassination is a preferred method by some. Whatever, Hunter. It never ceases to amaze me how one issue can cause so much hate. I took the time to explain several things to you on one of your points from a insiders perspective on multiple occasions, hoping that you would accept the truth man to man and move on. Knowing that, you choose to continue with the lies in a public fashion.


Off topic anyways and far from where most want to see it go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
hunter4095 said:
If I hear of another issue using kids as propaganda im gonna puke.
Hey, it was you and archery man that brought kids up? I don't recall me ever making the connection on this issue?

Anyway, do you support our game agency regulating all legal firearms for sporting purposes?
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
hunter4095 said:
But when they make changes kneeling to the public and allowed semi auto rifles and shotguns state wide, and then had problems arise they wouldn't have the backbone to reverse it.
Wouldn't problems have already arisen here, in the SRA, where they are already legal in our most heavily populated and hunted areas of the state. Wouldn't there be similar problems in other states where they are legal for hunting?

Is it the gun or the person behind the gun that would cause these problems?
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
hunter4095 said:
Probably, I hunted the opener this year down in the SE SRA with my semi shotgun. The weird part ? I had a group of 5 walk right up and talk to me , and all were carrying center fire rifles, when I explained it was shotgun only area they responded that they weren't bear hunting ???? Go figure.

So yes, every year here in the SE the WCO's come across many firearm violations along with hunter/public conflict.

We already lost our public shooting ranges due to knotheads, and now all of our private ranges are under attack.

So yes, I dont want to see any news reports of hunters or the public being injured,killed our property damage from semi auto rifles giving us two black eyes.

All it takes is one match to start a fire the commisioners couldn't put out with opinion being a state agency.
So, you ageee it is the person that is the problem if I understand you correctly? You lined up in defense of gun rights claiming that is is the person and not the gun which is the right position as well. So why do you support the ownership of semi auto for personal defense and recreational shooting claiming that it is the person and not the gun, yet wish to not allow semis for hunting if the person is the problem and not the gun?
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
One can draw a very close parallel between your opposition to hunters with semi as others have drawn between civilians with semis. I think I see that you realize that your position is a difficult one based on your positions on gun control.

It is either the gun or the person when we discuss thier uses. The improper use of semis by citizens tarnishes then use of semi by law abiding citizens yet we stand united in support of us being able to own them amd use them for whatever purposes we choose to, without political control over it. It seems you fear perceptions by non hunters as enough reason to prevent their use for hunting here yet dismiss non gun owners perceptions of these firearms outside of hunting.

I also see that the PA is not like other states being brought up again. Many states allow their game agencies to regulate semi autos for hunting. Many associate Michigan as a close relative to PA as far as hunting is concerned. They allow semi auto.
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
archeryman32 said:
Serious question dpms....do you own/work for a company that would stand to make money off of semi-autos being legal? Also, why do you need them, other than just want them?
Serious answer. No connection whatsoever to the gun industry. I work in healthcare. When I joined HPA, I had just bought a DPMS M4 and thought that would be a cool screen name. I used to be into guns more than I am now. More into bows lately.

As for you other question, I think semautomatic firearms have legitimate and protected uses by citizens for personal defense, recreational shooting and sporting purposes. I own one semi auto rifle and one semi auto handgun and both are set up for home defense. The rest of my guns are manual actions.
 
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