The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community banner

1 - 20 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I recently came upon this online. Its called a "Kali Key." The website says this:
"The Kali Key is the fast, cost-effective solution: In minutes, convert any mil-spec, gas operated (does not work with piston systems), AR-15 into a straight-pull bolt-action rifle. "
I recently come upon a 6.5 grendel in an AR15 platform. I got it intending to use it if, or when, semis become legal for big game. I came across this that would make it manually operated by replacing the gas key and the charging handle. Would this be able to be used? There is someone I know that only has access to a 3030 or 3006 and it is too much for her. She loves to shoot my AR and can do so with significantly increased accuracy and confidence. I wasnt sure if anyone else had went through this process.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
26,979 Posts
I recently came upon this online. Its called a "Kali Key." The website says this:
"The Kali Key is the fast, cost-effective solution: In minutes, convert any mil-spec, gas operated (does not work with piston systems), AR-15 into a straight-pull bolt-action rifle. "
I recently come upon a 6.5 grendel in an AR15 platform. I got it intending to use it if, or when, semis become legal for big game. I came across this that would make it manually operated by replacing the gas key and the charging handle. Would this be able to be used? There is someone I know that only has access to a 3030 or 3006 and it is too much for her. She loves to shoot my AR and can do so with significantly increased accuracy and confidence. I wasnt sure if anyone else had went through this process.
No, it would not be legal for big game or any other species not allowed now. Any altered semi auto must be permanently altered to be a bolt action, it cannot be a semi auto part time and a bold action the rest of the time for obvious reasons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,345 Posts
That's too bad. I like the idea of a straight pull bolt action. Blazer makes some very fine straight pull's.....but man....the $$$$$. M 1895 Lee Navy's were also straight pull.......but now are collector items.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
26,979 Posts
Yeah, I have some friends that have them, use them in Africa, the interchangeable barrels are a good feature as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
No, it would not be legal for big game or any other species not allowed now. Any altered semi auto must be permanently altered to be a bolt action, it cannot be a semi auto part time and a bold action the rest of the time for obvious reasons.
Do you happen to have the code that says that?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
26,979 Posts
The code says that semi autos are illegal, except for the exceptions of certain species. The interpretation is that a semi auto is a semi auto unless it is permanently rendered not a semi auto. That interpretation has held up in court. If you can go into the field with parts and tools in your backpack and do a conversion to return a rifle to semi auto, you do not have a bolt action rifle. I cannot convert my bolt action or lever action rifles to semi auto because they are bolt action and lever action and don't have the infrastructure to be a semi, what you are talking about is a semi auto that is temporarily a bolt action, not a bolt action but temporarily so. The law does not consider temporary conversions. I suggest you talk to the PGC if what I posted is not satisfactory.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,103 Posts
not to cause trouble. but i was of the understanding a person could use a semi auto rifle to hunt big game IF...it was "converted" to function as a single shot. one shot, no shell ejected.
the person would have to pull the charging handle back to eject the shell, just like a bolt action.


This "conversion" must also not be capable of being returned to semi auto mode in the field and the person must not have those parts in their possession.


i viewed the video...it turns your semi auto rifle into a manually operated bolt action, complete with a gas block that you need to install using tools.
its not a quick switch.



just for fun i e-mailed the PGC.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
26,979 Posts
Unless it was changed, it was the gun had to be permanently altered, it is still a semi auto by definition it only altered temporarily. That is why I told him to contact the PGC in case there was a change.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,103 Posts
i understand. if the PGC tells me its legal...i see a purchase in my future. and of course a new gun...my AR is 5.56, plenty enough for deer with the right bullet and placement but i can use it as an excuse to get a 6.5 grendel or .308 :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I'm going to call my PGC office tomorrow and see if they could elaborate. If it is allowed, I want to get it in writing to prevent an issue in the field. This would also be nice for me as a lefty and bolts are a problem to me. I do have a 760 but looking for something new and I as well am a lot more confident shooting my AR, as I shoot groundhogs out to 260 and steel to 400.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,103 Posts
I'm going to call my PGC office tomorrow and see if they could elaborate. If it is allowed, I want to get it in writing to prevent an issue in the field. This would also be nice for me as a lefty and bolts are a problem to me. I do have a 760 but looking for something new and I as well am a lot more confident shooting my AR, as I shoot groundhogs out to 260 and steel to 400.

thats why i sent an e-mail...get it in writing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,103 Posts
here is the reply:


If the weapon is permanently altered to a manually operated firearm it would not be illegal, however our officers are not gunsmiths and if they observe what appears to be a semi-automatic firearm in the field, and have any doubts that the firearm is permanently altered, they may seize the firearm and send it to the State Police Lab for examination by a ballistic/firearms certified expert, which may take months due to their backlogs. So while a permanently altered AR -15 style firearm would not be illegal, there is no way for an officer to determine that in the field, and it may subject the owner to having the firearm seized for expert examination and is therefore unadvisable, but not illegal.
Thanks for checking,
[email protected]

i guess the next step is to ask the PSP if it fits the definition of a permanent alteration.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,401 Posts
here is the reply:


If the weapon is permanently altered to a manually operated firearm it would not be illegal, however our officers are not gunsmiths and if they observe what appears to be a semi-automatic firearm in the field, and have any doubts that the firearm is permanently altered, they may seize the firearm and send it to the State Police Lab for examination by a ballistic/firearms certified expert, which may take months due to their backlogs. So while a permanently altered AR -15 style firearm would not be illegal, there is no way for an officer to determine that in the field, and it may subject the owner to having the firearm seized for expert examination and is therefore unadvisable, but not illegal.
Thanks for checking,
[email protected]
looks like the need a definition of permanent too. To me requiring tools and parts that you don’t have in the field or in your vehicle and 15 or 20 minutes on the bench is plenty permanent enough
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
26,979 Posts
looks like the need a definition of permanent too. To me requiring tools and parts that you don’t have in the field or in your vehicle and 15 or 20 minutes on the bench is plenty permanent enough
If it can be changed back and forth it isn't a permanent alteration.



Merriam Webster: permanently adverb
per·​ma·​nent·​ly | \ ˈpər-mə-nənt-lē , ˈpərm-nənt-\
Definition of permanently
: in a permanent manner : in a way that continues without changing or ending : in a way that is not brief or temporary

But of course you all knew that. This is nothing new.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,401 Posts
looks like the need a definition of permanent too. To me requiring tools and parts that you don’t have in the field or in your vehicle and 15 or 20 minutes on the bench is plenty permanent enough
If it can be changed back and forth it isn't a permanent alteration.



Merriam Webster: permanently adverb
per·​ma·​nent·​ly | \ ˈpər-mə-nənt-lē , ˈpərm-nənt-\
Definition of permanently
: in a permanent manner : in a way that continues without changing or ending : in a way that is not brief or temporary

But of course you all knew that. This is nothing new.
if we were dealing with modifying something to make it legal to own or posses that definition would be fine. Converting a semi to straight bolt on the other hand “permanent” and “temporary” sort of over lap for the purpose of hunting with it. If you cannot complete the conversion in the field why would that not be permanent enough? To the other extreme, even if the parts were welded in place they are not truely permanent, they only require different tools, time and skills to remove. I would expect if you used one to hunt you may have some ‘splainin to do but see no reason it’s illegal in pa.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
26,979 Posts
I'm sure you read the part of the definition that addressed not brief or temporary. If you can put it back the way it was when you converted it, it is a temporary change. That iss the way it is, I told you the PGC told you in their e-mail answer to bohunr, if anyone wants to give it a try, go ahead and take your chances in court. I addressed to op because he asked and I knew the answer and where to ask, I am done now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bohunr

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,533 Posts
if we were dealing with modifying something to make it legal to own or posses that definition would be fine. Converting a semi to straight bolt on the other hand “permanent” and “temporary” sort of over lap for the purpose of hunting with it. If you cannot complete the conversion in the field why would that not be permanent enough? To the other extreme, even if the parts were welded in place they are not truely permanent, they only require different tools, time and skills to remove. I would expect if you used one to hunt you may have some ‘splainin to do but see no reason it’s illegal in pa.
Are you questioning why some PA laws/regs make no sense? >:)
 
1 - 20 of 50 Posts
Top