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Discussion Starter #1
Ok. Any true Pens fan, I THINK, would consider this era of Crosby/Malkin a disappointment SO FAR, right ? I mean what, 10 years, 1 cup, and playoff runs that typically end far too early when dubbed Cup favorites. Add to that, the completely hot mess that 2015 has turned into, and....

So. How many of you would forego this (possibly failed) 2 star system of a hockey team, vanquish their 8.7 Mil/Per, and start over with a Connor McDavid, with a new supporting cast, starting next season ? How many of you would still choose to ride out the Crosby/Malkin era for a few more years, and take your chances that way for another cup or two ?

Again, I know this isn't on the table, just wondering how many would take each route.
 

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The odds are still pretty low that McDavid ends up being a player of Malkin/Crosby caliber, look at Mackinnon
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Perhaps you are correct ? Though, as good as Malkin is at times, I don't believe his numbers as far as goals and assists, are staggering ? So McDavid won't have to walk on water to put up Malkin numbers ?

Myself. I would choose to start anew. This just has gotten stale. BUT, from an ownership perspective, it hasn't failed. It puts butts in seats at Consol, and that's what an owner wants. Fans, we want playoffs, deep runs, and cups. A fan's sense of "failure" probably isn't the same idea as an owner's sense of failure.
Actually, this era hasn't been a complete failure. Under-achievement may be a better term ?
 

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I am not advocating this but I have always believed that Malkin would not be a Penguin his entire career.

Given the choice I say keep what we have but improve the supporting cast.
 

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Backwoods said:
Given the choice I say keep what we have but improve the supporting cast.
^^^THIS^^^
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Isn't the fact that a two equal salaried superstar system, straps the organization financially to the point that they can't really improve on support cast members ? Haven' they been trying to improve that cast for years now ?

Fact of the matter is, when Duper and Kunitz got their contracts, that admittedly hamper the cap, one could argue they were worth it. Not sure anybody would have predicted a precipitous drop-off in scoring from Kunitz, and blood-clots from Duper ?
 

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Not really, its more about giving aging players/less skilled guys contract that are overpayment........

For instance you are payinng Scuderi approx 4 mil/year and Erhoff 5 mil. / yr.

When you could have you could have had young talent like DP or Bortuzzo/Despres playing for 850k a year........that creates a lot of cap space in a hurry......
 

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Kunitz and Scuderi aren't playing up to their contracts. Injuries aren't helping. And, of all the guys they got recently (Winnik, Cole, LaPierre, Perron) only Cole is really playing well. Comeau has cooled off and Bennett never heated up.

The problem isn't Sid or Geno.
 

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Danesdad said:
Kunitz and Scuderi aren't playing up to their contracts. Injuries aren't helping. And, of all the guys they got recently (Winnik, Cole, LaPierre, Perron) only Cole is really playing well. Comeau has cooled off and Bennett never heated up.

The problem isn't Sid or Geno.
I agree. Sid and Geno have been at the top or near the tops in points in the league every year so it is hard to argue that it is all their fault. A couple of years in the playoffs they had disappointing point totals though, but then again they are heavily targeted.

The Pens sold out over various years trading away draft picks trying to pick up a rental player to put them over the top. Nothing wrong with that but eventually that catches up to you. As mentioned a couple of players are getting paid way more than their current playing level.
 

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Fleroo said:
Any true Pens fan, I THINK, would consider this era of Crosby/Malkin a disappointment SO FAR, right ? I mean what, 10 years, 1 cup, and playoff runs that typically end far too early when dubbed Cup favorites.
Calling an eight year run that took a team to the Stanley Cup Finals twice, the Conference Finals once, the Semi-Finals twice, and the Quarter-finals three times is a disappointment, really? Were you watching Penguin Hockey prior to 1985? How about the 90's? Were you watching then? The only difference between the current group (if you can call it that), and the team of the 90's was one Cup win. I guarantee the True Pens fans appreciated what they were watching in the 90's. Some fans have become so accustomed to winning traditions, they take for granted how hard it is to get one.

And I called Trask an “entitlement baby”. Another one joins the club.

Ok, now back to your post. I went to Erie last night and watched the Otters. McDavid did not disappoint. Four points (2g, 2a). IMO, he really seemed to be in the right place at the right time. The only thing I wondered, does he have the work ethic, and that extra gear he'll need to be a superstar at the next level? Only a few really know what makes him tick.

I'd like to see them keep 87 & 71 together. Although, if you could get a crazy deal for Geno (I mean really crazy), it might be tough to say no.
 

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Fleroo said:
Isn't the fact that a two equal salaried superstar system, straps the organization financially to the point that they can't really improve on support cast members ? Haven' they been trying to improve that cast for years now ?
Wait and watch what happens to the Hawks in a year or two. We'll see if your supposition is correct. Personally, I think this is life in the salary cap era.
 

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Buckshot1822 said:
Not really, its more about giving aging players/less skilled guys contract that are overpayment........

For instance you are payinng Scuderi approx 4 mil/year and Erhoff 5 mil. / yr.

When you could have you could have had young talent like DP or Bortuzzo/Despres playing for 850k a year........that creates a lot of cap space in a hurry......
Exactly, they became "top heavy" lusting after another run at the cup.
 

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eddie spaghetti said:
Calling an eight year run that took a team to the Stanley Cup Finals twice, the Conference Finals once, the Semi-Finals twice, and the Quarter-finals three times is a disappointment, really? Were you watching Penguin Hockey prior to 1985? How about the 90's? Were you watching then? The only difference between the current group (if you can call it that), and the team of the 90's was one Cup win. I guarantee the True Pens fans appreciated what they were watching in the 90's. Some fans have become so accustomed to winning traditions, they take for granted how hard it is to get one.
I agree.
 

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eddie spaghetti said:
Fleroo said:
Isn't the fact that a two equal salaried superstar system, straps the organization financially to the point that they can't really improve on support cast members ? Haven' they been trying to improve that cast for years now ?
Wait and watch what happens to the Hawks in a year or two. We'll see if your supposition is correct. Personally, I think this is life in the salary cap era.
Yep, that's how it is. When you have the stars the Pens do, what determines how far they go is the supporting cast and how effective they are.
 

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eddie spaghetti said:
Fleroo said:
Any true Pens fan, I THINK, would consider this era of Crosby/Malkin a disappointment SO FAR, right ? I mean what, 10 years, 1 cup, and playoff runs that typically end far too early when dubbed Cup favorites.
Calling an eight year run that took a team to the Stanley Cup Finals twice, the Conference Finals once, the Semi-Finals twice, and the Quarter-finals three times is a disappointment, really? Were you watching Penguin Hockey prior to 1985? How about the 90's? Were you watching then? The only difference between the current group (if you can call it that), and the team of the 90's was one Cup win. I guarantee the True Pens fans appreciated what they were watching in the 90's. Some fans have become so accustomed to winning traditions, they take for granted how hard it is to get one.

And I called Trask an “entitlement baby”. Another one joins the club.

Ok, now back to your post. I went to Erie last night and watched the Otters. McDavid did not disappoint. Four points (2g, 2a). IMO, he really seemed to be in the right place at the right time. The only thing I wondered, does he have the work ethic, and that extra gear he'll need to be a superstar at the next level? Only a few really know what makes him tick.

I'd like to see them keep 87 & 71 together. Although, if you could get a crazy deal for Geno (I mean really crazy), it might be tough to say no.
What is more disappointing Eddie, the 1993 Pens or the 1996-2012 Pittsburgh Pirates? With the amount of talent they have, and have had, there is no excuse for flaming out in the first round 37% of the time. When they got to the conference finals, they didn't even bother to show up. They flat got dominated. One season, there is a good excuse, the one where they were without Sid AND Geno. When you are top heavy like the Pens, you need to keep both of them healthy. This group of Pens has more or less showed us what it feels like to be a fan of Peyton Manning's teams. 1 Super Bowl surrounded by a career of postseason failures. What is most troubling, for me, is that they lose the exact same way, year after year, and never make any meaningful adjustment. Montreal is Philly is Tampa is Boston is New York. Every series pretty much was the same. Complete offensive shutdown, coupled with bizarre defensive mistakes. When they get a power play in the playoffs, you almost want to see if they are able to decline the penalty. In some ways, making the playoffs every year has been a bad thing. Fans, and management, kind of decided that no big changes needed made, just tweak the bottom end of the roster, and keep on keeping on. Hence, the Adams/Kunitz/Dupuis contracts. There was no good compelling reason for them. The team must have been well aware of the fact that Kunitz and Dupuis were going to fade. The Adams thing is baffling. Allowing Sid to decide he was going to play with ONLY Kunitz and Duper was ridiculous. That's when you say "Sid, we understand you like playing with Kunitz. We don't care--you will be playing with Iginla now. We didn't bet the house to have him play off wing third line." Making the playoffs in 07 was great--it showed improvement and hope for the future. Choking in the playoffs 5 straight years doesn't exactly give you the same warm fuzzy feeling. Yeah, I will admit, the other team is paid to win too. The biggest difference between the early teams of Crosby/Malkin and the teams of recent vintage in my opinion is this. The early squads played with fire and desperation in the playoffs. The recent ones have no desperation--it's "we just gotta get to our game and everything will work out." Having a minor league head coach doesn't help. He's used to interacting with guys like Poulliot, Maata and Bennett. Motivating a guy like Adams is a whole different ball game. Getting Crosby to do what you want him to do, instead of what he wants to do is different.

So yes, I would call 8 years with one single success disappointing.
 

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steelerfan58 said:
eddie spaghetti said:
Fleroo said:
Any true Pens fan, I THINK, would consider this era of Crosby/Malkin a disappointment SO FAR, right ? I mean what, 10 years, 1 cup, and playoff runs that typically end far too early when dubbed Cup favorites.
Calling an eight year run that took a team to the Stanley Cup Finals twice, the Conference Finals once, the Semi-Finals twice, and the Quarter-finals three times is a disappointment, really? Were you watching Penguin Hockey prior to 1985? How about the 90's? Were you watching then? The only difference between the current group (if you can call it that), and the team of the 90's was one Cup win. I guarantee the True Pens fans appreciated what they were watching in the 90's. Some fans have become so accustomed to winning traditions, they take for granted how hard it is to get one.

And I called Trask an “entitlement baby”. Another one joins the club.

Ok, now back to your post. I went to Erie last night and watched the Otters. McDavid did not disappoint. Four points (2g, 2a). IMO, he really seemed to be in the right place at the right time. The only thing I wondered, does he have the work ethic, and that extra gear he'll need to be a superstar at the next level? Only a few really know what makes him tick.

I'd like to see them keep 87 & 71 together. Although, if you could get a crazy deal for Geno (I mean really crazy), it might be tough to say no.
What is more disappointing Eddie, the 1993 Pens or the 1996-2012 Pittsburgh Pirates? With the amount of talent they have, and have had, there is no excuse for flaming out in the first round 37% of the time. When they got to the conference finals, they didn't even bother to show up. They flat got dominated. One season, there is a good excuse, the one where they were without Sid AND Geno. When you are top heavy like the Pens, you need to keep both of them healthy. This group of Pens has more or less showed us what it feels like to be a fan of Peyton Manning's teams. 1 Super Bowl surrounded by a career of postseason failures. What is most troubling, for me, is that they lose the exact same way, year after year, and never make any meaningful adjustment. Montreal is Philly is Tampa is Boston is New York. Every series pretty much was the same. Complete offensive shutdown, coupled with bizarre defensive mistakes. When they get a power play in the playoffs, you almost want to see if they are able to decline the penalty. In some ways, making the playoffs every year has been a bad thing. Fans, and management, kind of decided that no big changes needed made, just tweak the bottom end of the roster, and keep on keeping on. Hence, the Adams/Kunitz/Dupuis contracts. There was no good compelling reason for them. The team must have been well aware of the fact that Kunitz and Dupuis were going to fade. The Adams thing is baffling. Allowing Sid to decide he was going to play with ONLY Kunitz and Duper was ridiculous. That's when you say "Sid, we understand you like playing with Kunitz. We don't care--you will be playing with Iginla now. We didn't bet the house to have him play off wing third line." Making the playoffs in 07 was great--it showed improvement and hope for the future. Choking in the playoffs 5 straight years doesn't exactly give you the same warm fuzzy feeling. Yeah, I will admit, the other team is paid to win too. The biggest difference between the early teams of Crosby/Malkin and the teams of recent vintage in my opinion is this. The early squads played with fire and desperation in the playoffs. The recent ones have no desperation--it's "we just gotta get to our game and everything will work out." Having a minor league head coach doesn't help. He's used to interacting with guys like Poulliot, Maata and Bennett. Motivating a guy like Adams is a whole different ball game. Getting Crosby to do what you want him to do, instead of what he wants to do is different.

So yes, I would call 8 years with one single success disappointing.
And yet another entitlement baby speaks up.
 

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Accepting failure and losing is for Browns, Eagles, Cubs and Flyer fans. Do you think that Yankee fans said "Oh well, we had a good year anyway" when Maz's homer cleared the wall? Here in Pittsburgh, we want, and expect, championships, not participation awards.
 

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steelerfan58 said:
Accepting failure and losing is for Browns, Eagles, Cubs and Flyer fans. Do you think that Yankee fans said "Oh well, we had a good year anyway" when Maz's homer cleared the wall? Here in Pittsburgh, we want, and expect, championships, not participation awards.
I lived in Cleveland for seven years. I can confirm they Cleve fans do not "accept failure". But, there is a difference between accepting failure, and what you are talking about. Don't be offended by the EB moniker. I'm a baby boomer, it's just a term to define a segment of the population.

IMO there is a portion of the Pittsburgh sports fan base that doesn't remember football before 75. They only know the recent successes of the Steelers and the Pens. They expect nothing less. They think the Bucs are just the Bucs. For years we saw the one for the thumb tee shirts. It wasn't until 2009 that the Steelers had more "World Championships" than the Bucs, but most don't appreciate that fact. IMO talk radio, ESPN, fantasy leagues and money have all changed the way some look at sports - the EB's.

Don't get me wrong, I love your enthusiasm for your sports teams. I love being part of Steeler Nation, wearing my B-n-G. I just don't let it define me as a person.
 
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